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Pilot Employment in the Gig Economy

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Pilot Employment in the Gig Economy

Old 22nd Feb 2018, 18:33
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Pilot Employment in the Gig Economy

Time for a career change?

HeliHub.com Pilot Recruitment: The HeliSpeed ?Gig Economy?
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Old 22nd Feb 2018, 19:23
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Pilots paying for their own type ratings with a guarantee of future employment to pay back the cost.

That's some guarantee to pay back an S92 type rating whilst affording to live.

I don't know many people that can afford to sit around picking up scraps of work like ferry flights and maintain their licences. No wonder people are leaving the industry.

I wouldn't be paying for a type rating, I would just pay for a licence conversion to fixed wing
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 03:51
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"where there is a skills shortage we can organise type training paid for by the pilot but secured by a guarantee of future work by HeliSpeed”.

...with the knowledge that they have guaranteed income to pay off the training."

Look at it from a purely bean-counter perspective. Helispeed are effectively borrowing money from the pilot & paying it back interest free. If the pilot needs to finance the cost, he/she will be paying the interest on that finance out of after tax income, which would need to be claimed on a tax return but not all of it would be reimbursed. As h99 said, if the work didn't materialize it could be more cost effective for Helispeed to walk away from the pilot & pay the legal costs rather than reimburse the pilot. I feel sick in the guts with this trend.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 05:11
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Deliberate erosion of pilot T&Cs. If you pay for a type rating for a job you are very unlikely to ever get out from under, especially if you're not a captain in short order. Selling your soul to the company store.

I further suspect that the salary and conditions negotiations won by the European unions (as the most obvious example) over many years will rapidly erode. In my cursory skim of the article, each pilot is a subcontractor, probably a sole proprietor, working through their own individual company coordinated by Helispeed. That means Helispeed calls the tune.

I wonder how many 1000 hour pilots will play with this scheme and pay for a S-92 or other such rating. For those of us who might already hold a type rating on a complex and modern machine that's in demand, who covers recurrent training costs under this scheme? I could probably hazard a guess.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 07:47
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Disgusting is correct
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 07:49
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"each pilot is a subcontractor, probably a sole proprietor, working through their own individual company"

They'd also better make sure they have public liability insurance, as there will be no master/servant relationship.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 07:56
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Originally Posted by paco
"each pilot is a subcontractor, probably a sole proprietor, working through their own individual company"

They'd also better make sure they have public liability insurance, as there will be no master/servant relationship.
And recognise that many national tax departments will consider them as effectively employees for tax purposes, if they only have one client, see recent Ryanair cases in the Netherlands and the current dispute in the UK with a former BBC News presenter.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 08:26
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Not to mention that the UK at least will likely expect them to operate their own aircraft.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 08:27
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I think it could be quite useful for someone who already has a job and type currency paid for already to get some extra money in off time, also they are already flying to SOP’s on a regular basis.

But as a main income standalone it might not work so well as the costs of keeping current are prohibitive (2 hours Training / 2 Hour LPC, €8000 on AW139) and the standards will be lower as nobody (except for yourself) has ownership of your training / currency.

So I see standards falling over time if this model becomes widespread, pilots seem to be one of the few sectors that allow themselves to pay to go to work on a massive scale
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 09:51
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I would suggest Helispeed look into the issues of IR35 and being solely working for one company as a contractor.

On the type rating front as I mentioned on another post pilots paying for there own type rating is becoming common place I know of 4 pilots now and a fifth who is getting part finding from the company all its doing is pushing the goal posts further and making easy for companies taking the P*ss further.

But that’s my 10p worth.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 11:13
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Another nail in the coffin, it's all downhill from here.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 12:14
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Obviously Helispeed will say what they want to promote their product. At the end of the day each pilot they provide is money in their pocket! For example " S92 pilots for Aberdeen" £500 per day but you have to pay for your own accommodation transport etc........... If you are a offshore S92 pilot and you want to contract then just contact the company direct yourself, cut out the middle man and put the extra £'s in your own pocket.
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 14:07
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There has to be a balance between pilots getting free type ratings and moving on within a very short time, which was part of the reason behind the demise of Northern Mountain helicopters. But type ratings are one thing - in some airlines you don't get paid until you have paid for everything including your line training. That is truly taking the p*ss.

phil
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Old 23rd Feb 2018, 14:48
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There has to be a balance between pilots getting free type ratings and moving on within a very short time...
To Phil's point, which I apologize for truncating.

When I entered the civilian industry after a fair bit of time flying elsewhere I was taken aback by the fact that there was nothing stopping a pilot from taking a type rating from an employer and heading off elsewhere.

I was enlightened, in my vast ignorance, that such things as training bonds had been negotiated as being something that could not be done to the strongly unionized work forces, especially in Europe, though national companies in other parts of the world had no problem handcuffing pilots to their type rating with time and / or money.

Not being European, I didn't hold forth on why this gave me a strong sense of foreboding as I would have had a crew room full of pilots battering me about the head & shoulders and nobody needs that sort of thing when you just want a quiet Nescafe before the aircraft is turned around.

In my time in the industry I have never sensed any sort of give & take between "management" and "labor". The relationships are always adversarial. Given that, it's hardly surprising that management, feeling hard done by due to pilots scampering off with fresh type ratings would come up with something as draconian as not paying for training at all.

I worked for a big offshore company for a fair while and had a modicum of success at it. I've also worked a couple of gigs.

The greybeards (now retired) who were in the big offshore company would tell one, over a friendly glass in the evenings, to just watch... your conditions will erode, just as ours have.

And so it has come to pass.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 02:35
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At least in my part of the world there was a gentleman’s understanding that if an employer invested significantly in your training, be it a type rating, IR, mountain course, that said pilot would work there at least a year. And if you left before they would hunt you down. Then everyone lawyered up (or unioned up), and now we have training bonds and mistrust on both sides. Might have been that way all along in Europe, but wasn’t here.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 03:34
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Leaving before you give a reasonable return of service for ratings or training, is just shooting yourself in the foot...

You will simply get a reputation that will follow you...

If I employ, and train/type rate you, I will ask that you stay for a fair, and agreed length of time to make the cost worthwhile.
I don't however, believe type ratings should be used as a form of bonus, or instead of paying someone properly. I will type rate you as an operational necessity, not as a reward.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 03:55
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Originally Posted by BigMike
Leaving before you give a reasonable return of service for ratings or training, is just shooting yourself in the foot...

You will simply get a reputation that will follow you...

If I employ, and train/type rate you, I will ask that you stay for a fair, and agreed length of time to make the cost worthwhile.
I don't however, believe type ratings should be used as a form of bonus, or instead of paying someone properly. I will type rate you as an operational necessity, not as a reward.
BM, a lot of GA operators have that attitude & congratulations to you for it. From a line pilot's perspective it's not always a malicious or deceitful intent when leaving a company after receiving training. I've worked for some great operators who I consider friends, unfortunately the entire companies workload reduced significantly & I found myself in a personal situation where I just couldn't afford to stay with the company or I would have went broke. I didn't foresee that situation when I received the training but regardless of the reasons/excuses the end result was the same, the company trained me & about a year later I left. I worked hard to rectify my personal situation & I would be happy to go back to that company now if they'd have me, but a decade later I still feel regret that it went down that way. My regret doesn't help the operators bottom line & I guess if 1 particular operator has this happen a few times they would soon become reluctant to keep making the same mistake repeatedly & introduce bonds etc.
With the large companies they don't have a personal connection to the employee & I think they are adjusting their HR strategies in response to the generational shift, less people stay with 1 company for their working career these days compared to previous generations. I guess it's up to us to decide which world we want to live in when we choose which jobs to apply for, an unfortunate summary as surely a pilot paying for a rating to do a job is below the floor of reasonable business expenses.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 08:25
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I like the Branson adage "train people well enough so they can leave, treat then well enough they want to stay". It seems to be the Norwegian way? No bonds on an S92 and a starting FO salary of £70k+

But then I'm a pilot, not the one with the purse strings.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 15:15
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Someone is making money with others illusions...

I hope that this type of business doesnt make a trend or the helicopter aviation will be reduced to peanuts.

"Packer told me that his main demand at the moment is for S92 and AW139 aircrew with a surplus of AW189 and H175 crew available: “There isn’t a pilot shortage; there is a skills shortage. But where there is a skills shortage we can organise type training paid for by the pilot but secured by a guarantee of future work by HeliSpeed”."

One of the prophecies i have most heard was about this, and it's happening, people paying to work...

Disgusting.
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Old 24th Feb 2018, 15:40
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What you guys need to remember is that the companies need to make a profit and in recent years a lot haven't been making much at all . If there are two pilots after a job , one with a rating and the other without ...which one would you employ ? I think it seems perfectly fair to ask the one without a rating to pay for his rating over a period of time . I can tell you that if I had to rate someone to fly my machine I would at least want the " cost" repaying by a reduction in his pay over the year . There is no point moaning about it and looking to unions ....the market will find the correct rate for you guys and if you think it's too low then that is because there is a surplus of you ....when the reverse happens the rates will go up !! Lastly ....due to the underpayment of pilots how meanies companies are making a fortune ? I think the idea is very sound and having more pilots readily available for freelance work can only help get more aircraft in the air which is good for everyone .
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