Hot refuelling an AS355 F version
Hot refuelling an AS355 F version
Dear fellow pilots.
I need some advice from those in the know.
I have been tasked with a job in which hot refuelling my 355 f2 would make the operation a lot easier.
I’ve only done hot refuelling in the Bell 206 and if the wind is favourable it can be done safely.
For the 355 with F engines I’m worried that the exhaust from engine N1 is too close and pointing in the direction of the refuelling point.
Any advice on this? has anyone done it before?
I need some advice from those in the know.
I have been tasked with a job in which hot refuelling my 355 f2 would make the operation a lot easier.
I’ve only done hot refuelling in the Bell 206 and if the wind is favourable it can be done safely.
For the 355 with F engines I’m worried that the exhaust from engine N1 is too close and pointing in the direction of the refuelling point.
Any advice on this? has anyone done it before?
Years ago did it a lot. Never had a problem. (all grounding wires and other safety precautions done.) grounding very important as it was winter ( more static )and the beast was on fixed floats too.
Also some company OPS manuals or local authorities do not allow hot refueling so check that.
Also some company OPS manuals or local authorities do not allow hot refueling so check that.
thanks for replies. I need to ferry pax to an lp at 10.7k and I want to do it with minimum fuel so I will probably refuel after each trip or after two Trips. My concern with hot refuelling the 355 is the hot exhaust getting close to the refuelling nozzle And a danger of fire
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just make sure the person on the nozzle knows what they are doing including putting the cap and bonding on AND off
Pitcha if I could get this to workl https://www.google.com.au/search?q=b...Qei3Nq7MDwgXM:
Pitcha if I could get this to workl https://www.google.com.au/search?q=b...Qei3Nq7MDwgXM:
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 11th Jan 2018 at 23:49. Reason: Image insert
..Pitcha if I could get this to workl https://www.google.com.au/search?q=b...Qei3Nq7MDwgXM:
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"No chance. Put a small puddle of kerosene on the ground and try and light it with a match, see how difficult it is."
Yeah, right.
The last airtrooper to do that in the air corps (as a demo to a new guy) set fire to a Scout. I believe he ended up as the COs driver - go figure.
Yeah, right.
The last airtrooper to do that in the air corps (as a demo to a new guy) set fire to a Scout. I believe he ended up as the COs driver - go figure.
Last edited by paco; 11th Jan 2018 at 09:37.
We happily hot refuel a 355 F model almost every day. No more risky than the 206 in my opinion. Biggest risk is flying off with the fuel caps sitting in the step. The good news is that when (not if) you do it, as long as you stay in balance it will still be there when you land haha.
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TC, he will probably answer yes to all those q’s. It is a procedure that is done perfectly safely, and legally, hundreds of times a day, by hundreds of pilots.
When did you last hear of a problem with a Turbine machine having a problem. There has been the odd 44 that has burnt, but pretty sure it isn’t legal in as many places due to higher risk with Avgas
When did you last hear of a problem with a Turbine machine having a problem. There has been the odd 44 that has burnt, but pretty sure it isn’t legal in as many places due to higher risk with Avgas
http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/imag...t-Controls.pdf
https://www.aia.org.nz/site/aianz/Un...20Controls.pdf
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/file...13_desktop.pdf
https://robinsonheli.com/wp-content/..._full_book.pdf
SuperF you talk bollocks sometimes........
When is leaving a helicopter unattended EVER the right thing and the safest thing to do?? Granted someone out there will state an alternative but it doesn't detract from the basics - it is UNSAFE, UNWISE and downright stupid.
PS: None of the above are in la la EASA land either.
https://www.aia.org.nz/site/aianz/Un...20Controls.pdf
https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/file...13_desktop.pdf
https://robinsonheli.com/wp-content/..._full_book.pdf
SuperF you talk bollocks sometimes........
When is leaving a helicopter unattended EVER the right thing and the safest thing to do?? Granted someone out there will state an alternative but it doesn't detract from the basics - it is UNSAFE, UNWISE and downright stupid.
PS: None of the above are in la la EASA land either.
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In Canada it is legal to hot refuel, if it is approved in your OPS manual, of course you need all the grounding cable in place before getting the fuel AND a pilot should be at the controls while getting it AND no passengers on board during the refueling.
But it will happen occasionally (maybe a little bit more than occasionally) where the pilot will hot fuel his own aircraft but not legal at least not in Canada.
JD
But it will happen occasionally (maybe a little bit more than occasionally) where the pilot will hot fuel his own aircraft but not legal at least not in Canada.
JD
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Sorry to blow your mind TC, but things do happen safely and legally outside of your very limited view of aviation.
So to prove that I am wrong about leaving a helicopter without a pilot at the controls you link:
1. A document from Airbus that now makes it Legal to do it, even if they don’t recommend it!! Prior to this it was illegal but the have acknowledged that it is done and have reduced the restriction in the flight manual!
2. A document from the NZAIA, actually it was the helicopter committee of that organisation that I happen to be on, I remember sitting having this discussion with our CAA about this very issue. That document is a procedure that describes exactly how to do what I have said can be done safely and legally.
3 and 4 no idea, far to many pages to read on a phone!
I am guessing that somewhere the one from Robinson says that the pilot must be seated at the controls while the blades are turning, or something similar.
So let’s clear a few things up.
Do not hot refuel with Avgas, higher flash point just silly. We actually had some idiot do it in NZ,R44 I think, with those lovely static creating nylon overalls that everyone likes to wear now, burnt his machine!!!
Engine blades at Ground idle, 66% roughly.
Stay close, within the rotor disk is best if you can, but close!
Controls locks/frictions as appropriate for machine.
Check weather conditions, don’t be a dick!
Listen to your machine! You can hear it starting to wind up, and it will give you plenty of warning that it wants to fly. If you cannot hear your helicopter engine starting to wind up, if you are in it or outside it, then you shouldn’t be flying.
Airbus now allow it, it is NOW legal to hop out with rotors turning.
Bell just don’t care. They say minimum crew 1 pilot for flight. Flight time is skids up to skids down. So if the skids aren’t off the ground then you are not flying, therefore you do not have to have a pilot at the controls!! Ask a lawyer!
If anyone ever wants to see how hard it is for these things to fly away by themselves, sit at ground idle and pull collective, engine will slow, blades will droop, but no flying away...
If you need more proof come to NZ, contact me, I will run my helicopter for you and show you how safe it is if done properly.
So to prove that I am wrong about leaving a helicopter without a pilot at the controls you link:
1. A document from Airbus that now makes it Legal to do it, even if they don’t recommend it!! Prior to this it was illegal but the have acknowledged that it is done and have reduced the restriction in the flight manual!
2. A document from the NZAIA, actually it was the helicopter committee of that organisation that I happen to be on, I remember sitting having this discussion with our CAA about this very issue. That document is a procedure that describes exactly how to do what I have said can be done safely and legally.
3 and 4 no idea, far to many pages to read on a phone!
I am guessing that somewhere the one from Robinson says that the pilot must be seated at the controls while the blades are turning, or something similar.
So let’s clear a few things up.
Do not hot refuel with Avgas, higher flash point just silly. We actually had some idiot do it in NZ,R44 I think, with those lovely static creating nylon overalls that everyone likes to wear now, burnt his machine!!!
Engine blades at Ground idle, 66% roughly.
Stay close, within the rotor disk is best if you can, but close!
Controls locks/frictions as appropriate for machine.
Check weather conditions, don’t be a dick!
Listen to your machine! You can hear it starting to wind up, and it will give you plenty of warning that it wants to fly. If you cannot hear your helicopter engine starting to wind up, if you are in it or outside it, then you shouldn’t be flying.
Airbus now allow it, it is NOW legal to hop out with rotors turning.
Bell just don’t care. They say minimum crew 1 pilot for flight. Flight time is skids up to skids down. So if the skids aren’t off the ground then you are not flying, therefore you do not have to have a pilot at the controls!! Ask a lawyer!
If anyone ever wants to see how hard it is for these things to fly away by themselves, sit at ground idle and pull collective, engine will slow, blades will droop, but no flying away...
If you need more proof come to NZ, contact me, I will run my helicopter for you and show you how safe it is if done properly.