Midair Collision Near Waddesdon
SkyEcho
I believe with a SkyEcho (ADS-B IN/OUT) device £600 a tablet and SkyDemon you have a TCS device for as little as £1000 with all the benefits of skydemon. Then as long as everyone runs mode S we would all see each other and reduce these sad events happening. This is UK CAA Approved only. Even gliders could run this, has an internal batteries that runs for 6 hour. SkyEcho ? uAvionix
It would appear from the tracks they where both on the same track and the 152 descended onto the helicopter so in each others blind spot very sad day.
It would appear from the tracks they where both on the same track and the 152 descended onto the helicopter so in each others blind spot very sad day.
At this time SkyEcho renders 978MHz and 1090ES ADS-B targets. There isn't any notification of Mode 3/A, Mode C or Mode S aircraft.
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It is interesting that neither the CAA Safety Sense leaflet and the Airprox video really fully explain the visual scan, for instance it seems mostly confined by them forwards, why would you not scan through the side windows and over your shoulders.
Likewise, absolute no explanation of how to visually scan in an aircraft with a persex canopy, such as DR400, T67, Bulldog, G115. For example tilting the head back to look above. looking over the rlight shoulder, then toward the windsheld, over the the left shoulder, tilting the head back looking above and back to the windshield.
Interesting the comments on here especially why pilots are not being trained to think aboout the lookout before and during a decent.
Finally, can anyone suggest why the younger instructors in the UK are not teaching 60 degree banked turns? What do instructors do in other countries?
Likewise, absolute no explanation of how to visually scan in an aircraft with a persex canopy, such as DR400, T67, Bulldog, G115. For example tilting the head back to look above. looking over the rlight shoulder, then toward the windsheld, over the the left shoulder, tilting the head back looking above and back to the windshield.
Interesting the comments on here especially why pilots are not being trained to think aboout the lookout before and during a decent.
Finally, can anyone suggest why the younger instructors in the UK are not teaching 60 degree banked turns? What do instructors do in other countries?
Last edited by anchorhold; 21st Nov 2017 at 09:28.
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Finally, can anyone suggest why the younger instructors in the UK are not teaching 60 degree banked turns?
I ensure that all of the FI candidates I teach are able to teach to both 45AoB and 60AoB but see the norm during the discussion is that 60AoB is seen as a 'pusher' (challenge) for those who get 45AoB early in the lesson.
I do also teach maximum rate turns to those candidates, but I would suggest that over 90% of those haven't seen one before, let alone been taught to do one.
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"I doubt that the focus on WAP Tower being closed for period is relevant here"
Not where the accident happened, perhaps, but with people trying to get in and out of Wycombe before the closure times, I'm surprised that this has not already happened in the circuit.
Not where the accident happened, perhaps, but with people trying to get in and out of Wycombe before the closure times, I'm surprised that this has not already happened in the circuit.
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There are three 'relevant' LARS providers available in that area now: Brize, Oxford and Farnborough North - with Benson being able to 'chip' in when they're not busy with their own patch. Whether there is a 'policy' effort to use one provider (Oxford Radar, perhaps) I don't know - but again, they're optional calls if you want cover.
Regards Fred
Two thoughts in particular about Fred's comments above.
(1) The moment you have two providers in the same bit of airspace, you have a potential problem. It really shouldn't be hard in Britain to have a line on the chart, that clearly demarks to whom an aircraft should be talking, where (and if necessary, when).
(2) Historically instrument approaches are primarily controlled by a pilot, with supporting information from controllers. Historically pilots are also responsible for see-and-avoid in VMC. Always and forever, pilots are responsible for the safety of their aircraft. Therefore, particularly since this technology exists and is becoming increasingly affordable, I think that future collision avoidance strategies should concentrate on putting information directly into the cockpit - not be reliant on information from a controller [notwithstanding that I'd still like to see (1) sorted out in British airspace].
G
(1) The moment you have two providers in the same bit of airspace, you have a potential problem. It really shouldn't be hard in Britain to have a line on the chart, that clearly demarks to whom an aircraft should be talking, where (and if necessary, when).
(2) Historically instrument approaches are primarily controlled by a pilot, with supporting information from controllers. Historically pilots are also responsible for see-and-avoid in VMC. Always and forever, pilots are responsible for the safety of their aircraft. Therefore, particularly since this technology exists and is becoming increasingly affordable, I think that future collision avoidance strategies should concentrate on putting information directly into the cockpit - not be reliant on information from a controller [notwithstanding that I'd still like to see (1) sorted out in British airspace].
G
Finally, can anyone suggest why the younger instructors in the UK are not teaching 60 degree banked turns?
Whilst the CAA SSL13 - Collision Avoidance referred to here is quite comprehensive regarding lateral lookout, it only includes a one liner regarding lookout in the climb and descent
c) During the climb and descent beware of the blind spot under the nose– manoeuvre the aircraft so that you can check
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Whopity, wouldn't you say the whole syllabus is being dumbed down. I accept I am oblidged to follow the syllabus, but surely the instructor is able to go beyond the syllabus based on his initiative. For example 60 AofB and collision avoidance, sideslipping if someone is having problems with crossed controls on landing in cosswinds and pilot induced ocsilations, if you were training on certain types, such as the DR200 or DR400. What next, stalls can only be taught up to the stall warning?
But Im wondering can a flying school opt to teach beyond the EASA syllabus, I am also wondering if EASA thinks a steep turn is an aerrobatic manouvre?
On the point you raised about the lookout, says it all. What happenned to HASSELL and clearing turns. I think this leads me back to Firefly Bob's original point, is why dont we teach collision avoidence.
Is there a mechanism under EASA for the UK CAA to make it a requirement under a variation for 60 AoB turns and practice collision avoidance, based on the intensity of some Class G airspace in Southern Britain and fewer radar units?
But Im wondering can a flying school opt to teach beyond the EASA syllabus, I am also wondering if EASA thinks a steep turn is an aerrobatic manouvre?
On the point you raised about the lookout, says it all. What happenned to HASSELL and clearing turns. I think this leads me back to Firefly Bob's original point, is why dont we teach collision avoidence.
Is there a mechanism under EASA for the UK CAA to make it a requirement under a variation for 60 AoB turns and practice collision avoidance, based on the intensity of some Class G airspace in Southern Britain and fewer radar units?
Simply, because a number of items, including max rate turns, that were taught as part of the UK PPL, are not included in the JAA/EASA syllabus that we are now obliged to follow.
Whilst the CAA SSL13 - Collision Avoidance referred to here is quite comprehensive regarding lateral lookout, it only includes a one liner regarding lookout in the climb and descent
Whilst the CAA SSL13 - Collision Avoidance referred to here is quite comprehensive regarding lateral lookout, it only includes a one liner regarding lookout in the climb and descent
I think many posters may never have flown FW and, for those in that category, may not realise that the view out of a typical Piper or Cessna is like looking out of a letter box by comparison to most helicopters. Better with a bubble canopy (Slingsby or Bulldog for instance), but there is still a major blind spot caused by the engine.
Is there a mechanism under EASA for the UK CAA to make it a requirement under a variation for 60 AoB turns and practice collision avoidance
Don't know if this has been added already:
Local paper comment with crew pics.
Local paper comment with crew pics.
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Is there a mechanism under EASA for the UK CAA to make it a requirement under a variation for 60 AoB turns and practice collision avoidance
Sadly though, there aren't that many ATO's that would design a 60hour PPL course!
These guys didn't see each other, isn't that the point?
I understand your point....what in heavens name does teaching steep turns and training syllabus standards have to do with this at all.
Rather than evoke an argument about that....lets focus on likely causes, the reason for those factors, and how the situation in that particular bit of airspace be improved so that we never have a repeat of this tragedy where some vey good people sadly lost their lives.
This is something that can happen to any of us.
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Memorial Service for Mike
I was very sad to hear of this accident and in particular Mike’s involvement. I have spent many hours flying in the WAP local training area. It was always a hot spot: eyes on stalks as much as you could.
If there is to be a public memorial service or similar for Mike (for friends rather than just close family), I wonder if someone could post here to advise us. I would very much like to attend, if I can
If there is to be a public memorial service or similar for Mike (for friends rather than just close family), I wonder if someone could post here to advise us. I would very much like to attend, if I can