Do you let people have a go?

[rotarywise]

The OP is in the UK and so the relevant legislation is the ANO, Article 50:

(1) Subject to paragraph (2), a person must not act as a pilot of an EASA aircraft that is registered in the United Kingdom without holding an appropriate licence granted, converted or rendered valid under the EASA Aircrew Regulation.

(2) A person may act as a pilot of an EASA aircraft without holding an appropriate licence granted, converted or rendered valid under the EASA Aircrew Regulation when undergoing flying training, including solo flying training authorised and supervised by a flight instructor, in accordance with the EASA Aircrew Regulation as amended from time to time.

The question therefore turns on what constitutes 'acting as a pilot'. If the courts decide that, by manipulating the controls of an aircraft in flight, a person is 'acting as a pilot' then the situation as described by the OP is illegal.

[chopjock]

Acting is not real though!

[n5296s]

The question therefore turns on what constitutes 'acting as a pilot'

I'm pretty sure you have to wear four gold braids and a peaked cap. A large, expensive and complicated looking watch probably helps too.

[Cylinder Head]

Quote
"There is a difference between giving instruction and "letting someone have a go"...

Opinion is divided on the subject, Chopjock says there is, the law says there ain't!

In EASA land, If you are not a qualified instructor you, as PIC, you have no authority to pass control to anyone else who is not qualified.

[John R81]

You haven't passed "control". You are the pilot even if they are waggling the stick. You are not even training them - their waggle-time does not count as PUT. If the airframe gets bent, you could have an interesting time chatting with insurance about how sensible it was to let them have a waggle......

[Boslandew]

Passenger handling controls

Only did it once. Dumbest thing I ever did.

I was flying an airtest in an S58T. I had an engineer in the left hand seat. He assured me he had had 'hands on' many times in his career. I let him handle the controls during a long descent. At 2000' I took control and increased power to level off. There was an alarming rotor droop and I discovered that he had wound off both twist-grip throttles, thinking it necessary for descent.

Lucky I had started to level off at 2000' and not 500.

Wrong to have done it in the first place but really dumb to assume that just because he was a type qualified engineer, he understood enough to fly it.

[chopjock]

Boslandew
You were the commander and you didn't notice the throttle needles ? Also how do you know he was not just about to twist them back in when approaching 1000 feet or so? There is nothing wrong with letting a pax have a go so long as you keep situation awareness and be ready to regain control in my opinion.

[Thomas coupling]

Chopjock.

If you let a child or anyone 'not qualified'...drive your car and the car gets damaged/injures someone....who gets it in the neck, then?

You've just seen rotarywise quote the law.
Which bit of the law don't you understand?

You cannot hand the controls of an aircraft to anyone other than those qualified or authorised to do so - even for some waggle time......unless you (the PiC) understand fully that for that period - you are acting illegally and you are not insured....simples.
Of course it goes on, all the time and everywhere but...........it is illegal in the UK.
Where is the confusion in all of this?

[GKaplan]

I remember flying around with my 9 year old son handling the cyclic from the left seat while I was keeping control of the collective and pedals (which he couldn't reach anyway).
That was good fun... in a FFS (ok I'm out)

[chopjock]

TC

If you let a child or anyone 'not qualified'...drive your car and the car gets damaged/injures someone....who gets it in the neck, then?

Your analogy with a car is flawed, the car does not have dual controls and there are obstacles on the road to hit...

[Thomas coupling]

Just when I was warming to your retorts on other threads, you go and post this load of bolloc*s Choppy old boy.
Back to square one now - you still are a plonker.....

[John R81]

As many people appear to have done this - even posting here that they have, and there is video evidence aplenty on YOUTUBE; those who say it is illegal, please post a reference to the prosecutions. I have looked at the UK court record and can't find any.


Not saying it is a good idea, but I can't see that it is illegal.

[Bell_ringer]

Originally Posted by John R81

As many people appear to have done this - even posting here that they have, and there is video evidence aplenty on YOUTUBE; those who say it is illegal, please post a reference to the prosecutions. I have looked at the UK court record and can't find any.


Not saying it is a good idea, but I can't see that it is illegal.

Who would report it? The let-goer or the let-goee?
There is plenty of youtube footage of all sorts of illegal flying that goes unpunished.
If someone would care to volunteer some of their personal information and some supporting footage, then lets send it off to the relevant authority and see how it pans out.
Any takers?

[Hughes500]

Think you will find that a ppl with more than 200 hours with no instructor rating is entitled to give lesson 3 which is an air experience flight. Has to be done under the supervision of an ATO !

[chopjock]

Some front seat observers I know are shown how to land incase the pilot becomes incapacitated!

[Thomas coupling]

Chopjock - now you really have reverted to type. Absolute complete and utter bollocks.

I conducted a trial during my time as CP for the police/hems outfit to cover this very "circumstance".

Each and every time this was discussed or tried, it was apparent that it was a complete non starter.
First you have to 'assume' the incapacitated pilot doesn't slump all over the controls killing everyone instantly as the helo inverts.
Then you have to move from your co-pilot seat or back seat into the pilot seat after having chucked the pilot out of his seat without disturbing the controls! [AP: Don't even go there].
Then you have a complete *nob trying to fly a £6 million helo from X hundreds or thousands of feet all the way down to 'somewhere' straight in front of him or her without deviating (because they can't turn it in balance) to a running landing on the golf course which is always available in front of them and is always half a mile long.
Hovering options: Are you insane?


So I will take your last post as a pinch of salt and an attempt to wind me up - which it has done - bravo.

[rotarywise]

Think you will find that a ppl with more than 200 hours with no instructor rating is entitled to give lesson 3 which is an air experience flight.

Almost entirely incorrect, I'm afraid. Only the holder of an FI certificate (i.e. not a TRI or IRI) may conduct Ex.3, which is a part of the PPL syllabus. Perhaps you are getting confused with the 'introductory flight' that may be conducted by the holder of an LAPL or PPL. This is not an instructional flight and is certainly not Ex.3, nor is any minimum level of experience required to conduct such a flight. Have a look at para 4 of IN-2015/029

[Hughes500]

think you are playing semantics here. Introductory flight / air experience flight tell me what the difference is then ?

[Hughes500]

The In is typical of the CAA doesn't actually really say much, for the purpose of this thread it doesn't say that you can't let someone have a go which would be an introductory flight would presumably be all about

[chopjock]

TC

So I will take your last post as a pinch of salt and an attempt to wind me up - which it has done - bravo.

There are a lot more on here to wind up than just you. Nevertheless I have spoken to several observers who sit in the front about what they would do in the event of pilot incapacitation and more than one of them told me they were shown how to reach over and hold the stick, steer to a suitable open space, lower the lever and make a run on landing into wind.
I never said anything about hovering and I am not insane.