225 cleared to fly in UK & Norway
No exaggeration required at all. I lost count on the Mi-8 family around 2700 and estimate the total must be between 5k and 10k (in RECORDED accidents).
Around 12000 built across many decades though.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From this week's Flight International ....
While expressing “deep regret” for the 2016 accident, Airbus Helicopters says it welcomes the lifting of the flight ban, but adds: “We understand that this will not necessarily result in immediate passenger flights as there is a lot of work to be done to restore confidence in the aircraft.”
Interesting statement especially with the sudden interest in surveying the users.
There comes a time in the life of all helicopter projects where for a variety of reasons the manufacturer decides to call it a day. I can see why it was necessary for AH to take this to the point where their machine was cleared to fly. Whether there is a commercial case for doing much more beyond that is something AH must have considered. It is a very different market now to when the H225 and indeed S92 were launched.
While expressing “deep regret” for the 2016 accident, Airbus Helicopters says it welcomes the lifting of the flight ban, but adds: “We understand that this will not necessarily result in immediate passenger flights as there is a lot of work to be done to restore confidence in the aircraft.”
Interesting statement especially with the sudden interest in surveying the users.
There comes a time in the life of all helicopter projects where for a variety of reasons the manufacturer decides to call it a day. I can see why it was necessary for AH to take this to the point where their machine was cleared to fly. Whether there is a commercial case for doing much more beyond that is something AH must have considered. It is a very different market now to when the H225 and indeed S92 were launched.
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There must have been some very major development between 28 June when the CAA released a statement that it had "no immediate plans to lift the restriction" and 7 July when they stated “The UK and Norwegian aviation authorities have today set out plans for the lifting of operating restrictions on H225LP and AS332L2 helicopters”.
That would appear to be a very short time in which to make, test, verify and document any technical discovery.
It is said however that a week is a long time in Politics.
That would appear to be a very short time in which to make, test, verify and document any technical discovery.
It is said however that a week is a long time in Politics.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: All over the place
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by henra View Post
In all fairness he is maybe slightly exaggerating but not much:
S-61:
Civil: >181 Fatalities
Incl. Mil: >458 Fatalities
S-76:
>181 Fatalities
P.S.:
I don't have the figures for the Mi-8 but that will be easily in the Thousands.
No exaggeration required at all. I lost count on the Mi-8 family around 2700 and estimate the total must be between 5k and 10k (in RECORDED accidents).
Around 12000 built across many decades though.
In all fairness he is maybe slightly exaggerating but not much:
S-61:
Civil: >181 Fatalities
Incl. Mil: >458 Fatalities
S-76:
>181 Fatalities
P.S.:
I don't have the figures for the Mi-8 but that will be easily in the Thousands.
No exaggeration required at all. I lost count on the Mi-8 family around 2700 and estimate the total must be between 5k and 10k (in RECORDED accidents).
Around 12000 built across many decades though.
Fareastdriver: Do you mean that through 2014, from birth, Puma/Super Puma have contributed to 890 fatalities? I find it hard to believe that in one year that many people lost it in that model/family.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You make a somewhat relevant point here. Except I would compare this EC225 helicopter problem to that experienced with the horizontal tail surface actuator jack screws on some MD-80 commercial aircraft. Basically a combination of design and maintenance issues occurring at just the right time to cause a catastrophic failure.
Lessons learned, right?
Lessons learned, right?
You make a somewhat relevant point here. Except I would compare this EC225 helicopter problem to that experienced with the horizontal tail surface actuator jack screws on some MD-80 commercial aircraft. Basically a combination of design and maintenance issues occurring at just the right time to cause a catastrophic failure.
Lessons learned, right?
Lessons learned, right?
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: awaiting position fix
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After reading comments from the not-so-informed on social media regarding all things rotary, you can forgive me for wanting to clarify!
It would perhaps be very interesting and enlightening to see the same numbers for the entire Puma/Super Puma family. And then perhaps to equate all these numbers into a reasonable analysis of fleet size and hours flown. Anyone? Or are we all just satisfied with half an answer and a pretty meaningless statistic?
I don't have the figures with me but the pattern for the majority of large types is that across a few decades if you put 1000 helicopters out there working then they will typically have hundreds of accidents and one or two hundred people might die in those accidents. Some more, some less. Generally, the more military stuff they do and the more they operate in poorly regulated territories, the more people die.
What seems pretty clear is that the S-92 and H225 stand out from their parents (S-70/H-60 and AS332), and the rest, in their low rate of mishap and fatality so far. Anything that fails to acknowledge that is regrettable.
We can hope the H175 and AW189 will make a further 'step change in safety'.
I have not looked at any numbers separating Mi-171 from the 8 and 17. That might be pretty interesting.
BP will not use the Super Puma 225 and L2 helicopters until the root cause of last year's fatal crash is known.
But when you click on that link just below the headline it says:
Once that is established and the other oil companies start using the EC225 the economics will come into play and they will follow. Everybody knows the EC225 gives better payloads / range in most cases so the operating cost will be lower and this bottom line is what the beancounters are interested in.
Once that is established and the other oil companies start using the EC225 the economics will come into play and they will follow. Everybody knows the EC225 gives better payloads / range in most cases so the operating cost will be lower and this bottom line is what the beancounters are interested in.
BP for me have taken the right decision, review the evidence when we understand what caused it. Only then can a proper informed decision be made.
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Aer
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once that is established and the other oil companies start using the EC225 the economics will come into play and they will follow. Everybody knows the EC225 gives better payloads / range in most cases so the operating cost will be lower and this bottom line is what the beancounters are interested in.
I think that the 175 / 189 will fill the medium range market at a lower seat mile cost. The S-92 will continue to fill the longer range heavy requirement as it now does reliably. Contrary to what many think, the workforce does have a voice and won't welcome the 225 back if the stats are true. The return of the 225 is potentially therefore commercially irrelevant. Even if it came back at half price, which oil company aviation department is going to take the cost vs safety risk?
The future will tell if the 225 will return or not, I think it might (but it will take some time) because sadly money talks.
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: aberdeen
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shell and other supermajors say ‘no plans’ for return of Super Pumas
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...n-super-pumas/
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...n-super-pumas/
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: All over the place
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last month, Petronas and it's contract partners issued a 90 day termination notice for the utilization of their 225 contract with MHS. This one does specifically identify ExxonMobil as terminating their utilization of the type on this contract.
Petronas' partners want to terminate MHS Aviation's helicopter service too | The Edge Markets
Petronas' partners want to terminate MHS Aviation's helicopter service too | The Edge Markets