225 cleared to fly in UK & Norway
Originally Posted by henra
In all fairness he is maybe slightly exaggerating but not much:
S-61:
Civil: >181 Fatalities
Incl. Mil: >458 Fatalities
S-76:
>181 Fatalities
P.S.:
I don't have the figures for the Mi-8 but that will be easily in the Thousands.
S-61:
Civil: >181 Fatalities
Incl. Mil: >458 Fatalities
S-76:
>181 Fatalities
P.S.:
I don't have the figures for the Mi-8 but that will be easily in the Thousands.
No exaggeration required at all. I lost count on the Mi-8 family around 2700 and estimate the total must be between 5k and 10k (in RECORDED accidents).
Around 12000 built across many decades though.
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From this week's Flight International ....
While expressing “deep regret” for the 2016 accident, Airbus Helicopters says it welcomes the lifting of the flight ban, but adds: “We understand that this will not necessarily result in immediate passenger flights as there is a lot of work to be done to restore confidence in the aircraft.”
Interesting statement especially with the sudden interest in surveying the users.
There comes a time in the life of all helicopter projects where for a variety of reasons the manufacturer decides to call it a day. I can see why it was necessary for AH to take this to the point where their machine was cleared to fly. Whether there is a commercial case for doing much more beyond that is something AH must have considered. It is a very different market now to when the H225 and indeed S92 were launched.
While expressing “deep regret” for the 2016 accident, Airbus Helicopters says it welcomes the lifting of the flight ban, but adds: “We understand that this will not necessarily result in immediate passenger flights as there is a lot of work to be done to restore confidence in the aircraft.”
Interesting statement especially with the sudden interest in surveying the users.
There comes a time in the life of all helicopter projects where for a variety of reasons the manufacturer decides to call it a day. I can see why it was necessary for AH to take this to the point where their machine was cleared to fly. Whether there is a commercial case for doing much more beyond that is something AH must have considered. It is a very different market now to when the H225 and indeed S92 were launched.
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There must have been some very major development between 28 June when the CAA released a statement that it had "no immediate plans to lift the restriction" and 7 July when they stated “The UK and Norwegian aviation authorities have today set out plans for the lifting of operating restrictions on H225LP and AS332L2 helicopters”.
That would appear to be a very short time in which to make, test, verify and document any technical discovery.
It is said however that a week is a long time in Politics.
That would appear to be a very short time in which to make, test, verify and document any technical discovery.
It is said however that a week is a long time in Politics.
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Originally Posted by henra View Post
In all fairness he is maybe slightly exaggerating but not much:
S-61:
Civil: >181 Fatalities
Incl. Mil: >458 Fatalities
S-76:
>181 Fatalities
P.S.:
I don't have the figures for the Mi-8 but that will be easily in the Thousands.
No exaggeration required at all. I lost count on the Mi-8 family around 2700 and estimate the total must be between 5k and 10k (in RECORDED accidents).
Around 12000 built across many decades though.
In all fairness he is maybe slightly exaggerating but not much:
S-61:
Civil: >181 Fatalities
Incl. Mil: >458 Fatalities
S-76:
>181 Fatalities
P.S.:
I don't have the figures for the Mi-8 but that will be easily in the Thousands.
No exaggeration required at all. I lost count on the Mi-8 family around 2700 and estimate the total must be between 5k and 10k (in RECORDED accidents).
Around 12000 built across many decades though.
Fareastdriver: Do you mean that through 2014, from birth, Puma/Super Puma have contributed to 890 fatalities? I find it hard to believe that in one year that many people lost it in that model/family.
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Originally Posted by SASless
Reminds me of the Comet-Boeing 707 situation in a way.
Lessons learned, right?
Originally Posted by riff_raff
You make a somewhat relevant point here. Except I would compare this EC225 helicopter problem to that experienced with the horizontal tail surface actuator jack screws on some MD-80 commercial aircraft. Basically a combination of design and maintenance issues occurring at just the right time to cause a catastrophic failure.
Lessons learned, right?
Lessons learned, right?
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Originally Posted by 212man
I think what he meant was that for the S92 to compete on range, it requires the internal fuel tanks in the cabin which then reduces the space available for the pax. I'm pretty sure he knows about the sponson tanks......
After reading comments from the not-so-informed on social media regarding all things rotary, you can forgive me for wanting to clarify!
Originally Posted by rotor-rooter
It would perhaps be very interesting and enlightening to see the same numbers for the entire Puma/Super Puma family. And then perhaps to equate all these numbers into a reasonable analysis of fleet size and hours flown. Anyone? Or are we all just satisfied with half an answer and a pretty meaningless statistic?
I don't have the figures with me but the pattern for the majority of large types is that across a few decades if you put 1000 helicopters out there working then they will typically have hundreds of accidents and one or two hundred people might die in those accidents. Some more, some less. Generally, the more military stuff they do and the more they operate in poorly regulated territories, the more people die.
What seems pretty clear is that the S-92 and H225 stand out from their parents (S-70/H-60 and AS332), and the rest, in their low rate of mishap and fatality so far. Anything that fails to acknowledge that is regrettable.
We can hope the H175 and AW189 will make a further 'step change in safety'.
I have not looked at any numbers separating Mi-171 from the 8 and 17. That might be pretty interesting.
Originally Posted by helicrazi
BP will not use the Super Puma 225 and L2 helicopters until the root cause of last year's fatal crash is known.
Originally Posted by finalchecksplease
But when you click on that link just below the headline it says:
Once that is established and the other oil companies start using the EC225 the economics will come into play and they will follow. Everybody knows the EC225 gives better payloads / range in most cases so the operating cost will be lower and this bottom line is what the beancounters are interested in.
Once that is established and the other oil companies start using the EC225 the economics will come into play and they will follow. Everybody knows the EC225 gives better payloads / range in most cases so the operating cost will be lower and this bottom line is what the beancounters are interested in.
BP for me have taken the right decision, review the evidence when we understand what caused it. Only then can a proper informed decision be made.
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Once that is established and the other oil companies start using the EC225 the economics will come into play and they will follow. Everybody knows the EC225 gives better payloads / range in most cases so the operating cost will be lower and this bottom line is what the beancounters are interested in.
Originally Posted by terminus mos
I think that the 175 / 189 will fill the medium range market at a lower seat mile cost. The S-92 will continue to fill the longer range heavy requirement as it now does reliably. Contrary to what many think, the workforce does have a voice and won't welcome the 225 back if the stats are true. The return of the 225 is potentially therefore commercially irrelevant. Even if it came back at half price, which oil company aviation department is going to take the cost vs safety risk?
The future will tell if the 225 will return or not, I think it might (but it will take some time) because sadly money talks.
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Shell and other supermajors say ‘no plans’ for return of Super Pumas
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...n-super-pumas/
https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...n-super-pumas/
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Last month, Petronas and it's contract partners issued a 90 day termination notice for the utilization of their 225 contract with MHS. This one does specifically identify ExxonMobil as terminating their utilization of the type on this contract.
Petronas' partners want to terminate MHS Aviation's helicopter service too | The Edge Markets
Petronas' partners want to terminate MHS Aviation's helicopter service too | The Edge Markets
