Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

Bell 412 fuel leak in Cargolux 747-8F

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

Bell 412 fuel leak in Cargolux 747-8F

Old 12th Apr 2017, 11:56
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Bell 412 fuel leak in Cargolux 747-8F

A story from our brethren over in Freight Dogs regarding a Cargolux 747-8F freighter which was stuck in Prestwick for 12 days following the reported leak of "several hundred liters" of Jet-A from a Bristow Bell 412EP. The aircraft finally departed PIK yesterday. "Ya see, Timmy..."

Cargolux 747-8 trashed at Prestwick
Was carrying a helicopter on board which sprung a fuel leak and soaked all the avionics bay with gas. Plane has been on ground about a week with nose open trying to dry it out.


I/C
Ian Corrigible is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 13:28
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Brantisvogan
Posts: 503
Isn't it mandatory to drain fuel?
You can't move an engine without certifying it isn't hazardous by draining liquids..
Bell_ringer is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 13:42
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,040
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
Isn't it mandatory to drain fuel?...
I bet it is next time.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 14:51
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,599
Never drained fuel when shifting helicopters world wide. Used to take them off, throw the blades on and then punch off to the contract area. Same with cars. The pilot's Ferraris and the engineer's Ladas used to be driven on to the jack lift and straight into customs clearance.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 15:14
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,249
TDG HAZMAT-NEWS -Shipping Dangerous Goods and Transport News

Don't screw up in a US regulated area the fines are serious. Lucky it was in Europe.
Look at the sample fines listed above.

I think somebody is in for as big bill having the freighter grounded for 12 days alone can't be cheap.
ericferret is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 15:59
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 776
When flying a motorbike on a cargo plane the tank may only be filled to 1/4th of it's capacity max.That pretty much translates into 'just above reserve'.
GoodGrief is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 16:26
  #7 (permalink)  
419
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer View Post
Isn't it mandatory to drain fuel?
You can't move an engine without certifying it isn't hazardous by draining liquids..
Even totally draining the fuel doesn't mean that the engine or other item isn't classed as dangerous goods.
Unless you can certify that all traces of fuel including any vapours have been totally removed, the engine or other item would have to be shipped as class 9 miscellaneous with a UN code of 3363 (dangerous goods in machinery)

The only reason I know this is that a short while ago I was required to ship a number of aircraft engine fuel control units and even though these had been drained of all fuel, they still had to be shipped as DG.
419 is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 17:05
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Falkland Islands
Posts: 102
Never drained fuel when shifting helicopters world wide. Used to take them off, throw the blades on and then punch off to the contract area.
Pretty sure that when the two S92s arrived in the Falklands at the beginning of 2015 on the Antonov, they each had about 3000 lbs of fuel in the tanks.
Ant T is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 17:29
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,052
Sprung a fuel leak?
Just how did it spring a fuel leak?
albatross is offline  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 21:00
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 71
Posts: 4,102
Originally Posted by ericferret View Post
TDG HAZMAT-NEWS -Shipping Dangerous Goods and Transport News

Don't screw up in a US regulated area the fines are serious. Lucky it was in Europe.
Look at the sample fines listed above.

I think somebody is in for as big bill having the freighter grounded for 12 days alone can't be cheap.
Most of those fines relate to DG transgressions on passenger aircraft. This was a freighter, don't get confused and discuss restrictions not applicable to freight aircraft.
John Eacott is online now  
Old 12th Apr 2017, 23:34
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,249
"Most of those fines relate to DG transgressions on passenger aircraft"

How do you work that out as the only statement appears to be offered "for transportation by air" no mention of what type of carrier.
ericferret is offline  
Old 13th Apr 2017, 07:32
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,040
Originally Posted by 419 View Post
..The only reason I know this is that a short while ago I was required to ship a number of aircraft engine fuel control units and even though these had been drained of all fuel, they still had to be shipped as DG.
This doesn't make sense...if there is no fuel in the component it can't possibly be described as DG.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2017, 00:53
  #13 (permalink)  
419
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
This doesn't make sense...if there is no fuel in the component it can't possibly be described as DG.
Doesn't make sense?
Drain all of the fuel out of your car petrol tank then drop a match down the filler cap and providing that there is also a bit of oxygen available, you will soon see why it makes sense.

In some cases, a container or casing which has a mixture of oxygen and an inflammable vapour can be more dangerous than a container filled to the brim with an inflammable liquid with no space for air/oxygen.

Do a quick search on Google and you will find plenty of example such as this one:
4 Men Injured When Empty Fuel Tank Explodes | NBC 6 South Florida
419 is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2017, 06:30
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,040
But it's kerosene, and it's packed in a box. I find it very difficult to believe that an FCU which has been emptied of fuel would present any DG hazard, even if you tried to set it on fire with a match, or sparked any residual vapour.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2017, 09:57
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moo moo land
Posts: 279
There is no common sense applied to Dangerous goods.
Please dont try to over analyze or understand the regulations.
I had to get qualified once and hope never to open that particular tome every again.
lowfat is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2017, 10:33
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: At home
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by 419 View Post
Doesn't make sense?
Drain all of the fuel out of your car petrol tank then drop a match down the filler cap and providing that there is also a bit of oxygen available, you will soon see why it makes sense.
Apples and oranges...

Jet-A has a flashpoint from +38C, gasoline/petrol from -43C.... which makes an enormous difference.

Cargolux is an approved DG carrier, and it is not the first time they shift helicopters. Something tells me they know the regs better than the average PPRuNe here. Accidents can occur though.

Different rules for passenger and cargo aircrafts...
Nubian is offline  
Old 14th Apr 2017, 10:52
  #17 (permalink)  
419
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: London
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by Nubian View Post
Apples and oranges...

Jet-A has a flashpoint from +38C, gasoline/petrol from -43C.... which makes an enormous difference.
I realise that but my point was that unless something that once contained an inflammable or explosive vapour can be 100% guaranteed (and certified) to have all traces of that vapour removed then it must be shipped as UN3363.
As lowfat rightly stated. When it comes to DG shipping, there is never any common sense applied. If an appliance or piece of machinery contains, could contain, or did contain fuel then it must normally be assumed that despite it being removed, some still remains and this it has be shipped as DG.
DG in limited quantities, but still DG and any reputable airline who see any used fuel related component that hasn't been packed and certified as DG will refuse to accept it for carriage.
419 is offline  
Old 15th Apr 2017, 07:54
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: devon
Age: 80
Posts: 365
Cargolux carried all the Bristow Bell 212's rescued from Iran in 1979.
Oldlae is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2017, 08:21
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Africa
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by ericferret View Post
"Most of those fines relate to DG transgressions on passenger aircraft"

How do you work that out as the only statement appears to be offered "for transportation by air" no mention of what type of carrier.
In those examples of proposed penalties, the goods were incorrectly declared and packaged.
If the goods were correctly declared, and labeled and packaged accordingly, it would then be the carrier's responsibility to choose the correct way of shipping (e.g., cargo only aircraft, etc.).

In other words, the proposer's responsibility ends with the correct declaration and packaging. The carrier then has to decide how the good are to be carried.
Hot and Hi is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2018, 07:17
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Nigeria
Age: 52
Posts: 4,483
How not to transport a B412

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib...47-8r7f-lx-vcf

I think the expression "a catalogue of errors" is an understatement!

Last edited by 212man; 12th Jul 2018 at 09:26. Reason: New link
212man is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.