Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey, Mary, I didn't accuse you of being condescending. I just wanted to make the point that helicopters aren't gliders. OK, I've said that enough times now. BTW, I enjoyed your book, which I won at the BWPA Christmas Lunch raffle...so now you'll have worked out who I am, if you didn't know already. ;-)
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Mary - I feel you completely miss the mark with your post which comes across as rather condescending.
You will find that TC and others here are not 'nervous' about flying in the mountains. Your experience of mountain waves and ridge lift is nothing like having to operate IN the mountains, especially on bad weather days (or nights).
I suspect that if you were taken into the mountains in a helicopter in 20 plus kts of wind you would not enjoy it at all.
BTW guess what subjects are covered in helicopter met lessons both during basic and advanced training and in QHI training (TC is an ex-QHI) - yes mountain waves, rotors, up and downdraughts, anabatic and katabatic winds etc etc etc.
You will find that TC and others here are not 'nervous' about flying in the mountains. Your experience of mountain waves and ridge lift is nothing like having to operate IN the mountains, especially on bad weather days (or nights).
I suspect that if you were taken into the mountains in a helicopter in 20 plus kts of wind you would not enjoy it at all.
BTW guess what subjects are covered in helicopter met lessons both during basic and advanced training and in QHI training (TC is an ex-QHI) - yes mountain waves, rotors, up and downdraughts, anabatic and katabatic winds etc etc etc.
After a decade fixed wing in Wales I obtained my PPL H at Jandakot Perth in 1989.
Waves rotors and downdraughts are not encountered in West Australia.
However I have memories of some pretty nasty ones in NW Wales.
Lots of transcontinental flying in Europe,USA and Australia.
All paid for from my own pocket.
Still not sure if that makes me a pilot as it is a learning curve.
What about you?
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mary,
I'm pretty sure ex-ATA pilot Lettice Curtis was older than you when she learned to fly helicopters, and got her PPL(H), I think. I believe she was in her 80s, but Lettice was extremely cagey about her age.
but too old now to change from FW, that's for sure
Nice post Whirly.
Whenever someone asks me about flying helicopters I always tell them it is no harder than driving a JCB digger.
I have owned a few of them over the years for purely private recreational landscape work.
I reckon both helicopters and excavators are as useful and dangerous on a par.
Excavator drivers tend to be less self important.
Slightly of topic but I have recently read Mary Meaghers wonderful Flying Granny book on a red eye flight back from Asia.
Happy to post free of charge if someone wants a nice read.
PM me
Whenever someone asks me about flying helicopters I always tell them it is no harder than driving a JCB digger.
I have owned a few of them over the years for purely private recreational landscape work.
I reckon both helicopters and excavators are as useful and dangerous on a par.
Excavator drivers tend to be less self important.
Slightly of topic but I have recently read Mary Meaghers wonderful Flying Granny book on a red eye flight back from Asia.
Happy to post free of charge if someone wants a nice read.
PM me
Good post Crab but I beg to differ on your last paragraph.
Whenever someone asks me about flying helicopters I always tell them it is no harder than driving a JCB digger.
Still not sure if that makes me a pilot as it is a learning curve.
Excavator drivers tend to be less self important.
At one point we were going up 400 fpm with the needles split in a Hughes 269
and an empty Wessex 5 with 60knots in the hover going down at 1000fpm on full power and going up at the same rate in auto. Good fun in good weather with good vis! Bit bumpy though..............
Good post Crab but I beg to differ on your last paragraph.
After a decade fixed wing in Wales I obtained my PPL H at Jandakot Perth in 1989.
Waves rotors and downdraughts are not encountered in West Australia.
However I have memories of some pretty nasty ones in NW Wales.
After a decade fixed wing in Wales I obtained my PPL H at Jandakot Perth in 1989.
Waves rotors and downdraughts are not encountered in West Australia.
However I have memories of some pretty nasty ones in NW Wales.
Fixed wing in turbulence is quite a different kettle of canaries compared to helicopters, although rigid rotor helicopters do resemble fixed wing reactions. But no doubt you are aware of that?
John
I appreciate you are a well experienced Aussie helicopter pilot who has flown nice well organised flights
in expensive kit.
With all due respect I paid for my helicopter PPL at Jandakot in 1989 but spent 8 years flying across Wales in a single engine fixed wing aircraft and often in winter at night.
The low end of fixed wing and rotary flying.
Have you ever flown accross the mountains of North Wales,day or night?
The weather can change so quickly in that part of the world which is why so many pilots from England have died trying to cross Snowdonia or the Cambrian mountains.
Australian weather is quite predictable.
Australia does not have rapid weather changes in a matter of under an hour.
You say
I know from experience the chances of having a helicopter operating there as a private flight in marginal weather is on a par with Bob Hawke becoming Premier again.
This is a recent example of where two commercial pilots flying a state of the art helicopter died.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/witnesse...rash-1-3992567
The pilot in the accident we are discussing did not set out to kill himself and the passengers.
He just never had the experience or training to warn of the danger ahead if he chose the direct route.
That is what catches pilots out.
VFR flying across the UK is dangerous if you ignore the weather.
It a lot more dangerous at night single engine and single crew.
The odds become even greater flying from Wales to the Channel Islands at night in winter a PA28 or a 172.
Night VFR single engine is risky but very few accidents happen because the aircraft let you down.
I am sure some of my critics who fly for a living in very expensive kit view private pilots flying their own helicopters or fixed wing as cavalier.
If that was the case commercial pilots would never make a mistake such as the one above.
I appreciate you are a well experienced Aussie helicopter pilot who has flown nice well organised flights
in expensive kit.
With all due respect I paid for my helicopter PPL at Jandakot in 1989 but spent 8 years flying across Wales in a single engine fixed wing aircraft and often in winter at night.
The low end of fixed wing and rotary flying.
Have you ever flown accross the mountains of North Wales,day or night?
The weather can change so quickly in that part of the world which is why so many pilots from England have died trying to cross Snowdonia or the Cambrian mountains.
Australian weather is quite predictable.
Australia does not have rapid weather changes in a matter of under an hour.
You say
Jay, again you need to look outside your limited box. WA certainly does have wave rotors and downdrafts, albeit not as severe as the Welsh mountains. Glider pilots and the Stirling Ranges spring to mind, odd little ridge lines up Tom Price way, even the Kimberleys can give some difficult turbulence for helicopter ops. If your instructors failed to teach about that as part of your training then they were deficient in preparing you for flying.
This is a recent example of where two commercial pilots flying a state of the art helicopter died.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/witnesse...rash-1-3992567
The pilot in the accident we are discussing did not set out to kill himself and the passengers.
He just never had the experience or training to warn of the danger ahead if he chose the direct route.
That is what catches pilots out.
VFR flying across the UK is dangerous if you ignore the weather.
It a lot more dangerous at night single engine and single crew.
The odds become even greater flying from Wales to the Channel Islands at night in winter a PA28 or a 172.
Night VFR single engine is risky but very few accidents happen because the aircraft let you down.
I am sure some of my critics who fly for a living in very expensive kit view private pilots flying their own helicopters or fixed wing as cavalier.
If that was the case commercial pilots would never make a mistake such as the one above.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 11th Apr 2017 at 00:33.
We are not Tigerfish because you are not a pilot nor have you ever experienced the sort of rapid weather onset that killed this pilot and his family.
No pilot leaves A to B with the intention of having a rough ride unless they are paid to transport someone.
Private pilots and owners have the luxury of changing course and plans enroute.
I have turned back many times over decades,landed in places I never planned for, and indeed have great memories of journeys that could have become disasters.
This man had the desire to get to his destination despite the weather and died
Tory peer among four killed in helicopter crash - ITV News
No pilot leaves A to B with the intention of having a rough ride unless they are paid to transport someone.
Private pilots and owners have the luxury of changing course and plans enroute.
I have turned back many times over decades,landed in places I never planned for, and indeed have great memories of journeys that could have become disasters.
This man had the desire to get to his destination despite the weather and died
Tory peer among four killed in helicopter crash - ITV News
Lord Ballyedmond was 70-years old and one of the richest men in Northern Ireland. He leaves behind a wife and three children.
John
I appreciate you are a well experienced Aussie helicopter pilot who has flown nice well organised flights
in expensive kit.
With all due respect I paid for my helicopter PPL at Jandakot in 1989 but spent 8 years flying across Wales in a single engine fixed wing aircraft and often in winter at night.
The low end of fixed wing and rotary flying.
Have you ever flown accross the mountains of North Wales,day or night?
I appreciate you are a well experienced Aussie helicopter pilot who has flown nice well organised flights
in expensive kit.
With all due respect I paid for my helicopter PPL at Jandakot in 1989 but spent 8 years flying across Wales in a single engine fixed wing aircraft and often in winter at night.
The low end of fixed wing and rotary flying.
Have you ever flown accross the mountains of North Wales,day or night?
I even paid for my own flying at times in nice well organised (and less well organised) flights in expensive kit: that I owned and paid for
Research is letting you down again.
You obviously have no idea of the weather in the Australian Alps: where I ran a winter operation for 10+ years.
Sorry to disagree with you John but I am at the lower end of the food chain.
I doubt you have ever experienced how quickly weather in Wales can overcome a single crew private pilot.
I also have flown the low end helicopters such as the Rotorway which makes a Robbo feel like a BMW.
The topic we are discussing here is a single crew private helicopter pilot leaving Southern England in a nice well equipped helicopter with a destination of Dublin with a fuel stop en route.
Sadly he missed the bit in the middle in his flight plan.
Perhaps you can show us how you would flight plan that?
I do appreciate you have substantial multi crew experience ,and have flown the Snowden mountain area from RAF Valley ,but have you ever got in to a sticky situation low level in bad weather as the only pilot up front?
Do you know what it feels like in a small aircraft IMC being thrown around the sky and trying to focus on the panel?
Not nice!
Death staring you in the face.
I doubt you have ever experienced how quickly weather in Wales can overcome a single crew private pilot.
I also have flown the low end helicopters such as the Rotorway which makes a Robbo feel like a BMW.
The topic we are discussing here is a single crew private helicopter pilot leaving Southern England in a nice well equipped helicopter with a destination of Dublin with a fuel stop en route.
Sadly he missed the bit in the middle in his flight plan.
Perhaps you can show us how you would flight plan that?
I do appreciate you have substantial multi crew experience ,and have flown the Snowden mountain area from RAF Valley ,but have you ever got in to a sticky situation low level in bad weather as the only pilot up front?
Do you know what it feels like in a small aircraft IMC being thrown around the sky and trying to focus on the panel?
Not nice!
Death staring you in the face.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 11th Apr 2017 at 00:48.
Done some hairy VFR flights from Nassau to North Eluthra at night single engine in a 172 many years ago.
John is a bit like Dick Smith (well known rich Aussie pilot)
Well planned and not had the hassle of the crap UK weather.
Plus the temptation to fire up and fly when it is just a few steps next to the house.
No need to ask anyone to approve or sanction the flight.
When the aircraft or helicopter is in the garden the urge to go is easy.