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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

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Missing Twin Squirrel: Wales/Ireland

Old 7th Apr 2017, 17:52
  #301 (permalink)  

The Original Whirly
 
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Hey, Mary, I didn't accuse you of being condescending. I just wanted to make the point that helicopters aren't gliders. OK, I've said that enough times now. BTW, I enjoyed your book, which I won at the BWPA Christmas Lunch raffle...so now you'll have worked out who I am, if you didn't know already. ;-)
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 19:54
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Mary - I feel you completely miss the mark with your post which comes across as rather condescending.

You will find that TC and others here are not 'nervous' about flying in the mountains. Your experience of mountain waves and ridge lift is nothing like having to operate IN the mountains, especially on bad weather days (or nights).

I suspect that if you were taken into the mountains in a helicopter in 20 plus kts of wind you would not enjoy it at all.

BTW guess what subjects are covered in helicopter met lessons both during basic and advanced training and in QHI training (TC is an ex-QHI) - yes mountain waves, rotors, up and downdraughts, anabatic and katabatic winds etc etc etc.
Good post Crab but I beg to differ on your last paragraph.

After a decade fixed wing in Wales I obtained my PPL H at Jandakot Perth in 1989.

Waves rotors and downdraughts are not encountered in West Australia.

However I have memories of some pretty nasty ones in NW Wales.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 20:02
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rotorspeed View Post
Jay

Are you actually a pilot? What licence do you hold with what appproximate experience, out of interest?
35 years fixed wing PPL and 27 years helicopter PPL.

Lots of transcontinental flying in Europe,USA and Australia.

All paid for from my own pocket.

Still not sure if that makes me a pilot as it is a learning curve.

What about you?
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 20:27
  #304 (permalink)  

The Original Whirly
 
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Mary,
but too old now to change from FW, that's for sure
I'm pretty sure ex-ATA pilot Lettice Curtis was older than you when she learned to fly helicopters, and got her PPL(H), I think. I believe she was in her 80s, but Lettice was extremely cagey about her age.
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Old 7th Apr 2017, 20:44
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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Nice post Whirly.

Whenever someone asks me about flying helicopters I always tell them it is no harder than driving a JCB digger.

I have owned a few of them over the years for purely private recreational landscape work.

I reckon both helicopters and excavators are as useful and dangerous on a par.

Excavator drivers tend to be less self important.

Slightly of topic but I have recently read Mary Meaghers wonderful Flying Granny book on a red eye flight back from Asia.

Happy to post free of charge if someone wants a nice read.

PM me
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 17:23
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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Good post Crab but I beg to differ on your last paragraph.
I should have specified it was military helicopter training.

Whenever someone asks me about flying helicopters I always tell them it is no harder than driving a JCB digger.
it's not the physical handling of the machinery that is difficult, it is deciding what you will and will not do with it that causes the problems.

Still not sure if that makes me a pilot as it is a learning curve.
it certainly makes you a pilot, just not a professional one.
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Old 8th Apr 2017, 17:39
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Excavator drivers tend to be less self important.
Not my experience. In the last couple of years, a significant number of them who we've landed next to for a chat about their proximity/ lack of safety provision when working near HV electricity cables clearly prove you wrong there, I'm afraid.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 09:20
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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At one point we were going up 400 fpm with the needles split in a Hughes 269
As a first tourist, I remember being surprised to find myself in a hover in a Sea King at approx 19000lbs AUM, lever on the floor, couldn't stop it climbing (not quite 400 fpm admittedly!). Scotland rather than Wales, but same difference really.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 12:57
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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And in a Wessex in a lovely hover over a ridge line in Wales (I think), in full autorotation, until the realisation dawned that this was a really stupid idea.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 16:25
  #310 (permalink)  
 
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and an empty Wessex 5 with 60knots in the hover going down at 1000fpm on full power and going up at the same rate in auto. Good fun in good weather with good vis! Bit bumpy though..............
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 19:01
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by obnoxio f*ckwit View Post
And in a Wessex in a lovely hover over a ridge line in Wales (I think), in full autorotation, until the realisation dawned that this was a really stupid idea.
OK - as stupid ideas go - in a Wessex, winter night, cloudbase just above Bryn Poeth, cloud tops 5k ish, request to deploy Oggie MRT as high as possible on Carnedd Dafydd to locate missing Sandhurst Cadet party. "No prob" sez I and proceeded to hover taxi sideways up mountain with section of MRT, Nav in LHS, Winchie in door with Aldis to give tip and tail clearance. Wind quite strong SW'ly, we get to around 3000ft and lever mostly fully down so it's time to get out chaps I say. As last of 'stick' jumps out up we go up like cork out of bottle! "Turn left onto 300 and climb to 5000ft" says Nav calmly (thanks JM!) and so we did (already had 40kts A/S in hover). Came out on top, quick call to Valley approach, asked for cloud break over Menai which we got and went back to repeat with rest of MRT. This time I chucked 'em out 200ft lower and carried out a pre planned climbout. The crew seemed quite happy to carry on flying with me on subsequent shifts, as did the 'troops', and a bunch of Sandhurst cadet were rounded up and walked off the mountain - those were the days!
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 19:36
  #312 (permalink)  
 
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It's true then Jay Sata - you do talk rubbish, it seems.
Much as he's done on the NPAS thread
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 21:16
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata View Post
Good post Crab but I beg to differ on your last paragraph.

After a decade fixed wing in Wales I obtained my PPL H at Jandakot Perth in 1989.

Waves rotors and downdraughts are not encountered in West Australia.

However I have memories of some pretty nasty ones in NW Wales.
Jay, again you need to look outside your limited box. WA certainly does have wave rotors and downdrafts, albeit not as severe as the Welsh mountains. Glider pilots and the Stirling Ranges spring to mind, odd little ridge lines up Tom Price way, even the Kimberleys can give some difficult turbulence for helicopter ops. If your instructors failed to teach about that as part of your training then they were deficient in preparing you for flying.

Fixed wing in turbulence is quite a different kettle of canaries compared to helicopters, although rigid rotor helicopters do resemble fixed wing reactions. But no doubt you are aware of that?
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 22:23
  #314 (permalink)  
 
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John

I appreciate you are a well experienced Aussie helicopter pilot who has flown nice well organised flights
in expensive kit.

With all due respect I paid for my helicopter PPL at Jandakot in 1989 but spent 8 years flying across Wales in a single engine fixed wing aircraft and often in winter at night.

The low end of fixed wing and rotary flying.

Have you ever flown accross the mountains of North Wales,day or night?

The weather can change so quickly in that part of the world which is why so many pilots from England have died trying to cross Snowdonia or the Cambrian mountains.

Australian weather is quite predictable.

Australia does not have rapid weather changes in a matter of under an hour.

You say
Jay, again you need to look outside your limited box. WA certainly does have wave rotors and downdrafts, albeit not as severe as the Welsh mountains. Glider pilots and the Stirling Ranges spring to mind, odd little ridge lines up Tom Price way, even the Kimberleys can give some difficult turbulence for helicopter ops. If your instructors failed to teach about that as part of your training then they were deficient in preparing you for flying.
I know from experience the chances of having a helicopter operating there as a private flight in marginal weather is on a par with Bob Hawke becoming Premier again.

This is a recent example of where two commercial pilots flying a state of the art helicopter died.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/witnesse...rash-1-3992567

The pilot in the accident we are discussing did not set out to kill himself and the passengers.

He just never had the experience or training to warn of the danger ahead if he chose the direct route.
That is what catches pilots out.

VFR flying across the UK is dangerous if you ignore the weather.

It a lot more dangerous at night single engine and single crew.

The odds become even greater flying from Wales to the Channel Islands at night in winter a PA28 or a 172.

Night VFR single engine is risky but very few accidents happen because the aircraft let you down.

I am sure some of my critics who fly for a living in very expensive kit view private pilots flying their own helicopters or fixed wing as cavalier.

If that was the case commercial pilots would never make a mistake such as the one above.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 11th Apr 2017 at 00:33.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 23:36
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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We seem to be way off thread over the past two pages!

TF
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 23:50
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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We are not Tigerfish because you are not a pilot nor have you ever experienced the sort of rapid weather onset that killed this pilot and his family.

No pilot leaves A to B with the intention of having a rough ride unless they are paid to transport someone.

Private pilots and owners have the luxury of changing course and plans enroute.

I have turned back many times over decades,landed in places I never planned for, and indeed have great memories of journeys that could have become disasters.

This man had the desire to get to his destination despite the weather and died

Tory peer among four killed in helicopter crash - ITV News

Lord Ballyedmond was 70-years old and one of the richest men in Northern Ireland. He leaves behind a wife and three children.
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Old 10th Apr 2017, 23:53
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jay Sata View Post
John

I appreciate you are a well experienced Aussie helicopter pilot who has flown nice well organised flights
in expensive kit.

With all due respect I paid for my helicopter PPL at Jandakot in 1989 but spent 8 years flying across Wales in a single engine fixed wing aircraft and often in winter at night.

The low end of fixed wing and rotary flying.

Have you ever flown accross the mountains of North Wales,day or night?
Aware of tigerfish's comment, but yes I am experienced in UK flying: my first PPL was at Stapleford Tawney in 1965. I was hiking the Brecons in 1962, abseiling with the RAF MR as well, before flying all areas of Wales in a later life. I'm a Londoner by birth and didn't come to Australia until 1979.

I even paid for my own flying at times in nice well organised (and less well organised) flights in expensive kit: that I owned and paid for

Research is letting you down again.

Originally Posted by Jay Sata View Post
Australian weather is quite predictable.

Australia does not have rapid weather changes in a matter of under an hour.
You obviously have no idea of the weather in the Australian Alps: where I ran a winter operation for 10+ years.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 00:12
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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John,


You always fly in expensive kit. And the aircraft is quite natty, too. You can take the man out of the Royal Navy, but.....
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 00:12
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry to disagree with you John but I am at the lower end of the food chain.

I doubt you have ever experienced how quickly weather in Wales can overcome a single crew private pilot.

I also have flown the low end helicopters such as the Rotorway which makes a Robbo feel like a BMW.

The topic we are discussing here is a single crew private helicopter pilot leaving Southern England in a nice well equipped helicopter with a destination of Dublin with a fuel stop en route.

Sadly he missed the bit in the middle in his flight plan.

Perhaps you can show us how you would flight plan that?

I do appreciate you have substantial multi crew experience ,and have flown the Snowden mountain area from RAF Valley ,but have you ever got in to a sticky situation low level in bad weather as the only pilot up front?

Do you know what it feels like in a small aircraft IMC being thrown around the sky and trying to focus on the panel?

Not nice!

Death staring you in the face.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 11th Apr 2017 at 00:48.
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Old 11th Apr 2017, 00:24
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Delta Torque View Post
John,


You always fly in expensive kit. And the aircraft is quite natty, too. You can take the man out of the Royal Navy, but.....
My son is Royal Navy so lets not go down that route Delta

Done some hairy VFR flights from Nassau to North Eluthra at night single engine in a 172 many years ago.

John is a bit like Dick Smith (well known rich Aussie pilot)

Well planned and not had the hassle of the crap UK weather.

Plus the temptation to fire up and fly when it is just a few steps next to the house.

No need to ask anyone to approve or sanction the flight.

When the aircraft or helicopter is in the garden the urge to go is easy.
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