SAR S-92 Missing Ireland
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I'm not going to get in heated argument here there is a time and place for this, my point was getting the job done as quickly as possible with the right tools for the recovery of R116 but it is taking far too long after 3 weeks were still no nearer in the recovery of the wreckage, there may will be evidence on the wreckage the longer it stay's done there the more quickly it is going to disappear, I totally agree with Maclovin here with regards to Navy divers and Commercial divers and fully support him on this subject, there is a time. And place for Navy divers they are not experts in recovering downed helicopters and this is not the time for them at the moment, Commercial divers have recovered many downed helicopters in the North Sea and of the coast of Sumburgh where the environment was as challenging and hostile with rocky surfaces and it did not take 3 weeks to recover. As far as I'm aware there are far more capable DSV's in the offshore industry capable of lifting R116 in far more efficient time with the right tools for the job, time is running out and families patience must be running out the longer they wait.
Now the news has come that there is a further delay in the recovery operation earliest the weekend.
Now the news has come that there is a further delay in the recovery operation earliest the weekend.
Last edited by pumaboy; 30th Mar 2017 at 13:54.
All the talk about NVG's is well and good but I'm more concerned about the comments that , 1. there may not have been a moving map display in the cockpit and 2. the rock they hit might not have been in the data base even if they had #1. Is there any definitive information on either of these things? Both seem unimaginably sad and unfortunate to me if there is truth to either one. Did I miss something?
Question - were the 4 aircraft that were transferred from the CHC UK Interim SAR contract also updated to have EuroNav? When they served the contract in the UK they were not fitted with EuroNav in the front so there may be a difference in aircraft modification states across the fleet. The lack of mapping in the front of 4 of the 5 aircraft might mean slightly different procedures are required depending upon which aircraft the crews are in.
There has been no reply and I can understand the reason why Roscoe 1.
The RTE article that mentions the lack of Blackrock in the EGPWS, also claims the aircraft were fitted with Euronav in the front? But I believe they were just recycling the same information from the article about the kit on the one S92A that came direct from Sikorsky for the contract (they even use the same pictures). Of course the 4 ex Interim SAR S92As from the UK could have been modified post export to Ireland, but if not then they did not have digital mapping in the cockpit.
The Granuaille is equipped with dynamic positioning, that is why she is on station. However the conditions on the seabed are atrocious. The tide barrels through the gap between Blackrock and Parrot rock where the wreckage is located. The senior officer of the navy dive team likened it to 'diving on a flagpole in a gale'. The divers have great difficulty staying in place. Saturation divers would equally quickly become exhausted under those conditions. If they lift the fuselage off the seabed it would immediately swing sideways in the strong current and anything that fell out would be swept away. That is why the plan was to tilt the fuselage sideways using airbags but without actually lifting it clear of the seabed, in order to search underneath it. However due to the conditions mentioned, they are now considering that a straight lift may be their only option.
Rescue 116 wreckage may be lifted in search for crew
Rescue 116 wreckage may be lifted in search for crew
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I'm not going to get in heated argument here there is a time and place for this, my point was getting the job done as quickly as possible with the right tools for the recovery of R116 but it is taking far too long after 3 weeks were still no nearer in the recovery of the wreckage, there may will be evidence on the wreckage the longer it stay's done there the more quickly it is going to disappear,
Time it took to discover crash site is another issue that maybe should be revisited.
I hear what you are saying about the tides. But tides come and go, and there will be a period every day when there is no tidal current.
Last edited by SASless; 30th Mar 2017 at 16:17.
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I have to say that I agree with pumaboy & Red5ive, time is of the essence here. Must be horrible & frustrating for the families waiting so long for the remaining 2 crewman to be found for closure & ultimately the reason behind the crash.
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Ocean Challenger tug has left Castletownbere to assist in recovery of #Rescue116 wreckage
The 35 metre Ocean Challenger tug, operated by Bere Island based salvage experts Atlantic Towage & Marine, has departed Castletownbere Harbour tonight bound for Blacksod Bay to assist in the operation to recover the main wreckage of Rescue 116 and according to Marine Traffic is expected on scene over the weekend to join the Naval Diving Team currently on site..
Search co-ordinators have indicated that they now plan to lift the wreckage to the surface using the Ocean Challenger and other vessels on scene over the weekend when swells ease.
Naval Service divers will assist in the effort, which will allow for the inspection of an area below the helicopter that has been inaccessible since the crash over two weeks ago.
Plans to move the wreckage of Coast Guard Rescue Helicopter 116 using inflatable lifting bags were abandoned in recent days due to the large swell conditions at sea.
The mid sized tug will be positioned directly above the site, so the five-tonne wreckage can be taken from the water from a depth of 40 metres.
In 2014 Atlantic Towage & Marine successfully retrieved the 4 tonne keel of the yacht Rambler 100 from a depth of 75 metres off the Fastnet Rock in similar conditions to the Rescue 116 accident site at Blackrock island..
The 35 metre Ocean Challenger tug, operated by Bere Island based salvage experts Atlantic Towage & Marine, has departed Castletownbere Harbour tonight bound for Blacksod Bay to assist in the operation to recover the main wreckage of Rescue 116 and according to Marine Traffic is expected on scene over the weekend to join the Naval Diving Team currently on site..
Search co-ordinators have indicated that they now plan to lift the wreckage to the surface using the Ocean Challenger and other vessels on scene over the weekend when swells ease.
Naval Service divers will assist in the effort, which will allow for the inspection of an area below the helicopter that has been inaccessible since the crash over two weeks ago.
Plans to move the wreckage of Coast Guard Rescue Helicopter 116 using inflatable lifting bags were abandoned in recent days due to the large swell conditions at sea.
The mid sized tug will be positioned directly above the site, so the five-tonne wreckage can be taken from the water from a depth of 40 metres.
In 2014 Atlantic Towage & Marine successfully retrieved the 4 tonne keel of the yacht Rambler 100 from a depth of 75 metres off the Fastnet Rock in similar conditions to the Rescue 116 accident site at Blackrock island..
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"Maclovin, The incident you refer to earlier in 2009 was actually about 10 miles off the coast rather than at the Miller, I think if my memory is correct the vessel involved in recovery was the same that was only a couple of miles away and witnessed the incident as it happened? Not much issue with swell, current and fairly shallow waters so was a much easier job."
Simfly, the point I'm trying to make, is that sat divers should be used here instead of air divers precisely BECAUSE the conditions at blackrock are so difficult. Sat divers can work safely in much worse weather and tide conditions than surface divers on air, and for much longer.
Incidentally the helicopter crash in 2009 was witnessed by the crew of a supply boat which went straight to the scene to search for survivors. The DSV Bibby Topaz was mobilised subsequently from the forties field for the recovery. Apologies to all for the drift.
Simfly, the point I'm trying to make, is that sat divers should be used here instead of air divers precisely BECAUSE the conditions at blackrock are so difficult. Sat divers can work safely in much worse weather and tide conditions than surface divers on air, and for much longer.
Incidentally the helicopter crash in 2009 was witnessed by the crew of a supply boat which went straight to the scene to search for survivors. The DSV Bibby Topaz was mobilised subsequently from the forties field for the recovery. Apologies to all for the drift.
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I Totally agree Maclovin, in the 2009 accident the Super Puma was witnessed by the crew of a Norwegian PSV Normand Aurora and recovered by the DSV Bobby Topaz with DP2 built in 2004 purpose built for heavy construction offshore, I think it is about time now to bring in the experts it is taking to long as the vessel involved at the moment the Granuaille is 18 years old and has only DP 1 she does have a mon pool for diving operations and is not equipped to carry this operation out I also agree with Maclovin with regards to Sat Divers can work at longer periods in a safer condition and are used to working at deeper depths with changing currents, the authorities should now be looking to draft much more capable equipment to recover the R116 and the 2 missing crews if they are still in in the wreckage, the operation is taking to long and is also disrespectful for the families of the missing crews members, there is also the question if R116 did suffer a technical fault then what about the remaining S-92's that are still flying this has to be solved quickly as the longer the airframe remains in the water then any evidence of technical fault that was there may not there due to salt water corrosion and tidal currents.
Last edited by pumaboy; 31st Mar 2017 at 17:17.
Snakepit,
Thanks. I guess I just need to wait and see what the resolution of this accident is. Speculation is wrought with red herrings most of the time. Still, it is nearly impossible to resist if you are in any way close to the possibility of being an a similar scenario. My guess is that unless they find clear evidence of a mechanical failure, we will never know the details of exactly how these people lost their lives. We will only have contributing factors that when added up put them in that space at that time. Please push for digital map displays and NVGs. More folks have probably lost their lives for lack of these than for not doing a good preflight inspection. Money is no object if you insist.
Thanks. I guess I just need to wait and see what the resolution of this accident is. Speculation is wrought with red herrings most of the time. Still, it is nearly impossible to resist if you are in any way close to the possibility of being an a similar scenario. My guess is that unless they find clear evidence of a mechanical failure, we will never know the details of exactly how these people lost their lives. We will only have contributing factors that when added up put them in that space at that time. Please push for digital map displays and NVGs. More folks have probably lost their lives for lack of these than for not doing a good preflight inspection. Money is no object if you insist.
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Frustrating as it may be to those seeking answers, this is a recovery operation, not a rescue. The data recorders have been recovered which should go a long way to determining the cause.
While recovery of the remainder of the wreckage and/or casualties is highly desireable, neither justify risking the loss of further lives if conditions are too dangerous. It is just as important to know where to draw the line when attempting these types of recovery as it is to keep an aircraft on the ground when the weather conditions dictate.
Exercising patience and extreme caution are the only way to proceed with this operation and an acceptance that sometimes the sea refuses to yield its' secrets.
While recovery of the remainder of the wreckage and/or casualties is highly desireable, neither justify risking the loss of further lives if conditions are too dangerous. It is just as important to know where to draw the line when attempting these types of recovery as it is to keep an aircraft on the ground when the weather conditions dictate.
Exercising patience and extreme caution are the only way to proceed with this operation and an acceptance that sometimes the sea refuses to yield its' secrets.
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I have not heard the 2 remaining crew members are not in the wreckage........ it was speculated that after some searching of the main fuselage that the 2 remaining crew members could not be located but then the weather deteriorated and the search was called off.
Last edited by pumaboy; 31st Mar 2017 at 21:23.
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Frustrating as it may be to those seeking answers, this is a recovery operation, not a rescue. The data recorders have been recovered which should go a long way to determining the cause.
While recovery of the remainder of the wreckage and/or casualties is highly desireable, neither justify risking the loss of further lives if conditions are too dangerous. It is just as important to know where to draw the line when attempting these types of recovery as it is to keep an aircraft on the ground when the weather conditions dictate.
Exercising patience and extreme caution are the only way to proceed with this operation and an acceptance that sometimes the sea refuses to yield its' secrets.
While recovery of the remainder of the wreckage and/or casualties is highly desireable, neither justify risking the loss of further lives if conditions are too dangerous. It is just as important to know where to draw the line when attempting these types of recovery as it is to keep an aircraft on the ground when the weather conditions dictate.
Exercising patience and extreme caution are the only way to proceed with this operation and an acceptance that sometimes the sea refuses to yield its' secrets.
Frustrating as it may be but there are questions that have to be answered especially if it finds out the R 116 suffered some sort of Technical malfunction and is it fleet line problem there are families waiting for the loved ones to be laid rest and in piece we are nearly into week 4 and all we have right now is a whole load of what if's and speculation and that the a/c was at the location of Blackrock that is all we have right now, I appreciate that conditions are dangerous out there but we are still no nearer to know what has happened to R116 time is running out questions have to be answered.
Obviously grammar isn't a strong point 
The data recorders have been recovered which should go a long way to determining the cause.
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Friday, March 24, 2017
Gardaí have confirmed a body have been discovered on board the wreckage of the Rescue 116 aircraft.
Officials also said that the other two crew members of the R116 have not yet been located, but that operations will continue overnight.
Gardaí have confirmed a body have been discovered on board the wreckage of the Rescue 116 aircraft.
Officials also said that the other two crew members of the R116 have not yet been located, but that operations will continue overnight.
Gardaí confirm body of one Rescue 116 crew member located in wreckage. Search for his colleagues ongoing.
All other sources say pretty much the same since then.
It was hoped that when they tried a partial lift to look underneath the wreckage they might find something.
Last edited by Red5ive; 1st Apr 2017 at 01:58.
They should have a pretty good idea what happened once the CVR/FDR is processed by the AAIB, and considering they've had it about a week it, something more definitive should be known soon.