AAIB January 2017
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AAIB January 2017
Two helicopter reports:
G-RFUN: R44
"The helicopter took off at close to its maximum weight. It then flew to a hilly area, where the pilot made a downwind approach, with full carburettor heat applied, to an Out-of-Ground-Effect (OGE) hover. The manufacturer’s performance figures show this to be outside the declared flight envelope of the helicopter. The helicopter was unable to sustain the hover and descended, probably entering a vortex ring state, before it landed heavily and rolled onto its side. The occupants escaped from the aircraft with one passenger sustaining a minor injury."
G-SAIG and a Spitfire
"The Robinson R44 helicopter hover taxied across Runway 28 as the Spitfire was completing its landing roll. The propeller of the Spitfire contacted the empennage of the helicopter but neither pilot was aware there had been contact, although a bump was felt in the R44. The helicopter returned to the apron for an inspection, where damage to its empennage and tail rotor guard was discovered"
G-RFUN: R44
"The helicopter took off at close to its maximum weight. It then flew to a hilly area, where the pilot made a downwind approach, with full carburettor heat applied, to an Out-of-Ground-Effect (OGE) hover. The manufacturer’s performance figures show this to be outside the declared flight envelope of the helicopter. The helicopter was unable to sustain the hover and descended, probably entering a vortex ring state, before it landed heavily and rolled onto its side. The occupants escaped from the aircraft with one passenger sustaining a minor injury."
G-SAIG and a Spitfire
"The Robinson R44 helicopter hover taxied across Runway 28 as the Spitfire was completing its landing roll. The propeller of the Spitfire contacted the empennage of the helicopter but neither pilot was aware there had been contact, although a bump was felt in the R44. The helicopter returned to the apron for an inspection, where damage to its empennage and tail rotor guard was discovered"
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Actually regarding the first accident it's hard to know where to start, The real reason for this type of accident (not necessarily this one) is often much more complex than it first seems, It is in keeping with a trend I have noticed in the last 15 years for new private pilots (especially those in their 40's of the business man variety) to not know (or care) about RFM limits, who will do just enough to get a licence (and the subsequent PC's) but basically they are a law unto themselves with very little regard to good airmanship (TEM), actually I am surprised there aren't more of this type of accident, the FI's in my experience try very hard to promote good standards but are fighting a losing battle.
Last edited by Camp Freddie; 17th Jan 2017 at 09:50.
CF
Have to disagree with you there ! From what I see the standard of training in this country is woeful. That is not to blame the instructors but the system where the inexperienced are asked to train the new generation.
How many R44 instructors for instance take the machine out at PPLH learning stage with the heli at close to MAUW ?
If you look or instance at the military system you don't see any junior pilots with no experience instructing !
Have to disagree with you there ! From what I see the standard of training in this country is woeful. That is not to blame the instructors but the system where the inexperienced are asked to train the new generation.
How many R44 instructors for instance take the machine out at PPLH learning stage with the heli at close to MAUW ? If you look or instance at the military system you don't see any junior pilots with no experience instructing !
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I'd say the problem is that the private pilots receive no supervision after they get their licence in a similar fashion to private drivers. Yes you have an LPC per annum but no one authorizes your sorties and provides a sanity check. sadly there is no practical way of bringing that in, particularly if the pilot in question doesn't want it and owns their own aircraft. So sad to see machine lost (bit surprised the occupants got away with it)
If you look or instance [sic] at the military system you don't see any junior pilots with no experience instructing !
The helicopter pilot reported that he had stopped to look for traffic and made a radio call before crossing to the north side. He did not hear any other traffic on the frequency. As he crossed Runway 28, he heard a “whooshing” noise but did not feel any contact. He concluded that he had not seen the other aircraft because he was looking for aircraft on approach and not on the ground.
So we seem to be condoning a poorly functioning system with low-time, inexperienced instructors giving a very varied quality of instruction to new pilots (the blind being led by the partially sighted), a complete lack of mandated post-graduate training or checking - is this some bizarre race to the bottom of the aviation barrel?
Sorry to interupt the dump on ppl's party.
Weight and balance, aircraft performance and safe operation (avoiding downwind landings when heavy) are a basic skill,
Any instructor would hammer this In and it is an extremely basic part of flight planning.
Stupidity is not limited to ppl's it is frequently shown by professional pilots also.
With 80-odd hours and only flying 1 hour in 3 months you can only expect a problem. There is no way to remain current like that. Those hours should be spent flying dual to reinforce the skills until such a time the pilot is flying often enough to be safe.
What are UK regs about currency? X number of hours and takeoff/landings?
A system can't route out stupidity nor can the instructor be responsible for what a pilot does or doesn't do after training.
Weight and balance, aircraft performance and safe operation (avoiding downwind landings when heavy) are a basic skill,
Any instructor would hammer this In and it is an extremely basic part of flight planning.
Stupidity is not limited to ppl's it is frequently shown by professional pilots also.
With 80-odd hours and only flying 1 hour in 3 months you can only expect a problem. There is no way to remain current like that. Those hours should be spent flying dual to reinforce the skills until such a time the pilot is flying often enough to be safe.
What are UK regs about currency? X number of hours and takeoff/landings?
A system can't route out stupidity nor can the instructor be responsible for what a pilot does or doesn't do after training.
CF
Nothing to do with mil v civilian it is an example of how it should be done, not what we have ended up with, everything driven by money. Yes I agree that there are good young instructors, but teaching people to fly is not just following Lessons 1 to 30 in a regimented way. It is about teaching airmanship ( in my day ) now called threat and error management, really just common sense ! How can you expect an junior instructor who has done nothing else other than regimented lessons and a load of trial lessons pass this wealth of knowledge on ? We have ended up in the classic catch 22 situation.
Nothing to do with mil v civilian it is an example of how it should be done, not what we have ended up with, everything driven by money. Yes I agree that there are good young instructors, but teaching people to fly is not just following Lessons 1 to 30 in a regimented way. It is about teaching airmanship ( in my day ) now called threat and error management, really just common sense ! How can you expect an junior instructor who has done nothing else other than regimented lessons and a load of trial lessons pass this wealth of knowledge on ? We have ended up in the classic catch 22 situation.
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I had no idea you could shoot wild boars in the Peak District. This was possibly the most unexpected part of the report.
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So, just to be clear, is it agreed then? All of us PPLs (who haven't crashed or aren't dead yet) should just call it quits and leave the skies clear for you salaried greater mortals to occupy in complete safety. I believe that I was taught to fly by one of the best who has undoubtedly subsequently signed off many of your licenses. I was one of "those in their 40's of the business man variety" who perhaps chose that career path in order to fund my love of flying. I consider training and currency a serious matter in much the same way as salaried pilots do but voluntarily and at my own expense. As for the comment about occupants, not pilots of an R44, your attitude and ignorance knows absolutely no bounds.
Wallism
Really pleased you take it seriously, unfortunately I fear you are in the minority of owners from what I see an an examiner !
How many gotcha's do you want ? over MAUW, downwind landing, vertical take off and hovering at 70 ft, hopefully no instructor teaches these ????
Really pleased you take it seriously, unfortunately I fear you are in the minority of owners from what I see an an examiner !
How many gotcha's do you want ? over MAUW, downwind landing, vertical take off and hovering at 70 ft, hopefully no instructor teaches these ????
Any training, and yep it's the same training everyone goes through irrespective of how they intend to fly, has checks and balances from other instructors (hopefully more senior) through to the person signing off the test.
So if we are producing rubbish pilots then you are saying the entire training system is broken, the same system that will produce commercial pilots.
There are cowboys in all shapes, sizes and licenses.
There are plenty of recreational pilots that take the process extremely seriously and from what I've seen often have more air-time and experience than the average lower hour comm pilot so let's not paint an entire group with one or two accidents.
Overall you'd find the majority of accidents feature higher qualified pilots than it does the more casual flier.
Someone determined not to do proper planning and to operate beyond their own and the machine's limits is not a reflection on who taught them but a serious flaw with the individual behind the controls.
So if we are producing rubbish pilots then you are saying the entire training system is broken, the same system that will produce commercial pilots.
There are cowboys in all shapes, sizes and licenses.
There are plenty of recreational pilots that take the process extremely seriously and from what I've seen often have more air-time and experience than the average lower hour comm pilot so let's not paint an entire group with one or two accidents.
Overall you'd find the majority of accidents feature higher qualified pilots than it does the more casual flier.
Someone determined not to do proper planning and to operate beyond their own and the machine's limits is not a reflection on who taught them but a serious flaw with the individual behind the controls.
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Pilot’s assessment of cause
The pilot reported he did not see or feel anything unusual in entering the hover, but that
the aircraft lost power. When asked why he had used full carburettor heat, the pilot stated
he had been taught “you can never have too much carb heat”. He was unaware that
carburettor heat had an adverse effect on the aircraft’s performance.
The pilot reported he did not see or feel anything unusual in entering the hover, but that
the aircraft lost power. When asked why he had used full carburettor heat, the pilot stated
he had been taught “you can never have too much carb heat”. He was unaware that
carburettor heat had an adverse effect on the aircraft’s performance.
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Throwing in another $.02 into the discussion as a "40ish businessman" (actually a bit older 
): one must also question student motivation. When I finished my PP-ASEL training and passed that checkride, I felt pretty confident in my ability to fly from paved runway to paved runway. No fuss, no muss, just be careful of the weather and aircraft performance. When I finished my PP-H and passed the checkride I felt like I had merely obtained a license to go out and get killed. And, to be VERY clear, this is after obtaining what I felt was excellent instruction. There is just so much more complexity to helicopter flying (preaching to the choir, no doubt), especially if it extends beyond mere paved runway to paved runway operations, that it can't be economically contained in the civilian PP syllabus.
As a result of my continued badgering of the outstanding school that I am lucky to be associated with ("Let's go do some 'challenging' confined space, let's go fly in the snow, etc.") if I would only get off my posterior and take the written I'd be ready for the commercial checkride.
Sadly it would appear that I might be the exception rather than the norm amongst the "40ish businessman" class (with all due respect to other exceptions!) And yet I am only now becoming confident that I might survive the next 100 hours. Not because I didn't pass the PP checkride with flying colors, but because doing so is probably not enough for real world helicopter operations.
): one must also question student motivation. When I finished my PP-ASEL training and passed that checkride, I felt pretty confident in my ability to fly from paved runway to paved runway. No fuss, no muss, just be careful of the weather and aircraft performance. When I finished my PP-H and passed the checkride I felt like I had merely obtained a license to go out and get killed. And, to be VERY clear, this is after obtaining what I felt was excellent instruction. There is just so much more complexity to helicopter flying (preaching to the choir, no doubt), especially if it extends beyond mere paved runway to paved runway operations, that it can't be economically contained in the civilian PP syllabus.As a result of my continued badgering of the outstanding school that I am lucky to be associated with ("Let's go do some 'challenging' confined space, let's go fly in the snow, etc.") if I would only get off my posterior and take the written I'd be ready for the commercial checkride.
Sadly it would appear that I might be the exception rather than the norm amongst the "40ish businessman" class (with all due respect to other exceptions!) And yet I am only now becoming confident that I might survive the next 100 hours. Not because I didn't pass the PP checkride with flying colors, but because doing so is probably not enough for real world helicopter operations.
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The fact that confined / restricted areas aren't actually part of the Proficiency check test schedule doesn't help people much get better at them unless they seek improvement themselves with some extra training.
I know you could test it under 2.7 landings (various profiles) but you don't have to and most people don't as far as I can see
I know you could test it under 2.7 landings (various profiles) but you don't have to and most people don't as far as I can see
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
It has all the makings of one of those Aircraft Accident scenarios where you have to identify all the potential contributing factors. I was always taught that you should expect a spirited attempt to kill yourself due to a mixture of over-confidence and lack of imagination around 100 hours (check that box), 500 hours, and 1,000 hours.
a. Total of 87 Hours - 9 on type.
b. Total of 3 Friends in the cabin.
c. "Approximately 15 minutes later the helicopter arrived at a boar shooting ground where the pilot intended to hover, so they could wave at some friends."
d. Overweight aircraft and underweight estimating.
e. "made a downwind approach, with full carburetor heat applied, to an Out-of- Ground-Effect (OGE) hover."
f. "outside the declared flight envelope of the helicopter."
a. Total of 87 Hours - 9 on type.
b. Total of 3 Friends in the cabin.
c. "Approximately 15 minutes later the helicopter arrived at a boar shooting ground where the pilot intended to hover, so they could wave at some friends."
d. Overweight aircraft and underweight estimating.
e. "made a downwind approach, with full carburetor heat applied, to an Out-of- Ground-Effect (OGE) hover."
f. "outside the declared flight envelope of the helicopter."
With the reference to carb heat he was then also not flying a Raven 2 (fuel injected) so even less room for error.
Simple tools like ibal and Gyronimo make flight planning easy, there's no excuse really.
Being hot and high around these parts, power management is an essential part of training.
Confined operations are all a standard part of training and checks.
If you aren't going to be taught (and practice) them you may as well go fly a stuck wing instead.
Simple tools like ibal and Gyronimo make flight planning easy, there's no excuse really.
Being hot and high around these parts, power management is an essential part of training.
Confined operations are all a standard part of training and checks.
If you aren't going to be taught (and practice) them you may as well go fly a stuck wing instead.
occupants, not pilots of an R44, your attitude and ignorance knows absolutely no bounds
