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R22 overspeed on start due to throttle being fully open

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R22 overspeed on start due to throttle being fully open

Old 8th Sep 2016, 16:39
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R22 overspeed on start due to throttle being fully open

The title says it all. I've been away from flying for nearly a decade. While working on getting checked out in the R22 I rolled the throttle fully open instead of fully closed just prior to start. Of course and engine overspeed ensued when I cranked the starter. My instructor pulled the mixture within 3 seconds and sent the aircraft to the maintenance hanger. He explained that the engine will probably have to be sent to Robinson for an inspection. My questions are:

1) Has anyone else ever had this happen or am I just a complete idiot?
2) What damage likely occurred
3) How many dollars worth of damage did I just do?

I appreciate feedback; critical or not. Getting back into flying after so many years away is very humbling.

Last edited by stigma; 8th Sep 2016 at 17:26.
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 17:41
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Very humbling I'm sure, but I would have thought just as much for the instructor as many have their hand on the throttle and check its closed before start.

Many have done it before you and I am sure many will do in the future.

The damage will depend on the degree of the over speed, but the engine will be very thoroughly inspected and probably overhauled.

Your school will have insurance, there may be an excess though.

We all make mistakes, hopefully we learn from them.

Last edited by Redland; 12th Sep 2016 at 00:27.
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 17:49
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We all make mistakes, hopefully we learn from them
and just don't make the mistake of paying for it... Your instructor should have had his thumb out of his ass and not let you make the mistake in the first place! You are only a student...
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 17:53
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Welcome back to aviation. Don't beat yourself up about it. You certainly bear some responsibility, however it sounds a lot like "IP late with corrective action" to me.

Sitting in the other seat involves more than just demonstrating maneuvers and keeping score.
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 18:20
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There is a endless steady stream of these incidents and always has been, most high hours instructors automatically have there hand on the throttle and check its closed before start.
Would be nice if the start was inhibited if throttle not closed in the same way the rotor brake inhibits the start, would have saved shed load of engines and spinning fans
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 18:50
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As others have said, your instructor bears 100% of the responsibility. You were not current, (no FAR 61.56 flight review I assume), therefore not legally PIC. Any instructor sitting with a set of controls who fails to have one hand on the throttle for an engine start needs to go back to flight school.
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 19:34
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Well done on getting it to start first time.
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 20:22
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Could be worse...if you had done that in a Bell 206 it would cost a fortune..push start with the throttle full open or even at idle and it is all over. Seen it happen.
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 22:26
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This is pretty common in both R44 and R22. Have seen it (from the hangar) once in an R44. Damage was fairly minimal, an inspection and I believe a mag overhaul. Did you happen to check if the fan had spun? Thats usually a good indication of how bad an overspeed it is.. I am starting to think that Robinson deliberately avoid an overspeed protection system (like the 300's STAR system) to charge for parts! It seems like a basic addition to a 22/44 and would save a lot of downtime, heartache and money. Lucky I did my first 60 hrs in a 300 and when I tried to overspeed it on start, the STAR system saved the day..
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Old 8th Sep 2016, 22:57
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Seen it done in an R22 before. Sounded like a chainsaw starting up.
As others have said the instructor is at fault.....why he never checked the throttle position is beyond me.
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Old 9th Sep 2016, 00:14
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Originally Posted by Jelico View Post
This is pretty common in both R44 and R22. Have seen it (from the hangar) once in an R44. Damage was fairly minimal, an inspection and I believe a mag overhaul. Did you happen to check if the fan had spun? Thats usually a good indication of how bad an overspeed it is.. I am starting to think that Robinson deliberately avoid an overspeed protection system (like the 300's STAR system) to charge for parts! It seems like a basic addition to a 22/44 and would save a lot of downtime, heartache and money. Lucky I did my first 60 hrs in a 300 and when I tried to overspeed it on start, the STAR system saved the day..
Thanks Jelico and everyone else. The instructor accepted responsibility, and I sure learned a lesson! I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has made this bonehead move. Hopefully a day of beating myself up about it will hammer the lesson in; I sure don't need to make any more mistakes like this.
To answer your question, the fan had not spun. Sure seems like a simple overspeed protection system for starting would be a worthwhile addition.
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Old 9th Sep 2016, 00:21
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Thanks

Thank you to everyone who responded to this post; at least I can stop feeling like I'm the only idiot in the world who has ever done this. I'm glad to hear the flight schools insurance should cover the inspection and repair. If any of you have a favorite site / youtube channel for new R22/44 pilots, could you recommend it? I want to learn from OTHER peoples mistakes rather than from my own! Thanks again!
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Old 9th Sep 2016, 00:23
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this is the first time it's ever started on the first try... that should have been the first clue!
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Old 11th Sep 2016, 10:24
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In the spirit of "other people learning from mistakes" - our R44 was oversped a good few years ago and the cause was not the common open throttle but the pilot lifting to hover whilst not being completely aware of his surroundings, which introduced excessive yaw, then in an attempt to get to a "place of safety" away from other things pulled in excessive collective too quickly which meant the governor couldnt keep up.

The pilot then continued on his flight and susequently another pilot used the aircraft - it was maintenance staff that heard the event that later grounded the aircraft.

It cost us 30K+ but was insured, took months to sort out - lots of time and effort.

In My Humble Opinion - Lessons to be learned;

1) State of mind - don't fly if you are mentally distracted/tired/drunk/out of currency etc.
2) Discuss and have a plan - if the reaction to yaw would have been lowering the lever - different story
3) ALWAYS STOP and take stock immediately/ASAP after any unexepcted event - you may be in some level of shock or done something you havent considered - seek wise counsel. NEVER IGNORE IT AND/OR ASSUME IT WILL BE OK.
4)REPORT IT

CC
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Old 13th Sep 2016, 09:04
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Good lesson for all.

After thousands of starts, I always get in and first thought is "THUMB DOWN", then do whatever is needed to start. Doesn't matter what machine.

It's basic. But served me well. 100% actually.

A mate with tens of thousands of hours, does exactly the same thing.

Thumb Down and all is good. Just a thought.

Arrrj
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Old 13th Sep 2016, 09:13
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First lesson I ever got was "take a photo of the back of the squirrel cage". Just in case the bloke before you over-torqued the engine and you get sent the bill.

Last edited by Bell_ringer; 13th Sep 2016 at 09:14. Reason: grammar gremlins
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Old 15th Sep 2016, 10:07
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In the spirit of "other people learning from mistakes" - our R44 was oversped a good few years ago and the cause was not the common open throttle but the pilot lifting to hover whilst not being completely aware of his surroundings, which introduced excessive yaw, then in an attempt to get to a "place of safety" away from other things pulled in excessive collective too quickly which meant the governor couldnt keep up.

CC
Also seen things heading this way a number of times as an instructor when the student is tense, could be a slow governor (common at altitude) but more common in my experience is the student/pilot is gripping the throttle too tightly, white knuckled, and not letting the governor do it's job.
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Old 15th Sep 2016, 13:06
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Tickling the throttle open - bad habit

Another gotcha to watch for is the habit of some pilots ticking the throttle open slightly to help the start. We now teach that this is not an acceptable technique following the experience of an examiner doing a type rating test on a R44 Raven II. Examiner had checked throttle was closed prior to start then removed hands from controls for flight as required in that role.
Student had gradually tickled throttle open further and further whilst cranking because the engine hadn't started, then he suddenly realised that he hadn't pushed the mixture in, so did so. Result overspeed and fastest type rating test failure ever - within 2 secs of engine.
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Old 15th Sep 2016, 13:57
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Originally Posted by Arrrj View Post
Good lesson for all.

After thousands of starts, I always get in and first thought is "THUMB DOWN", then do whatever is needed to start. Doesn't matter what machine.

It's basic. But served me well. 100% actually.

A mate with tens of thousands of hours, does exactly the same thing.

Thumb Down and all is good. Just a thought.

Arrrj
My own starting rule is "thumb down, feel the spring". There is no spring on the other side.
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Old 15th Sep 2016, 22:04
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Examiner had checked throttle was closed prior to start then removed hands from controls for flight as required in that role.
The unobtrusive fingers of the examiner's left hand resting lightly on the throttle would have let him or her monitor the candidate and prevent an expensive stuff up too - it surprises me that wasn't done. It's not interfering with the test, just sensible.
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