State of the Industry
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I believe some of the big players have pulled out due to the risk reward profile of the bid (low or negative profit margins, penalties and escape clauses)
You’d think out of the lowest bidders CHC being the incumbents in KTA would secure the slot over a heavy EMS focussed Toll apart from a couple of ex offshore guys and their HOTC, maybe thats why they advertised awhile ago for more offshore drivers to put into their bid
You’d think out of the lowest bidders CHC being the incumbents in KTA would secure the slot over a heavy EMS focussed Toll apart from a couple of ex offshore guys and their HOTC, maybe thats why they advertised awhile ago for more offshore drivers to put into their bid
Last edited by belly tank; 15th Jan 2018 at 11:56.
I believe some of the big players have pulled out due to the risk reward profile of the bid.
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Race to the bottom ?
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https://www.lifeflight.org.au/page/careers/Aviation_Careers/Aviation_Positions_Available/Rotary_Wing_Co-Pilots/
I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....
Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....
Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
come on Belly, its not like that, look at Babcock, Toll and now PHI, all meeting the new market reality. BRS crews and engineers voted down the pay restructure idea, how can they compete if the work force won't help. They're all highly paid captains over there with no co pilots, they cant win a job. You need to work out your bottom is the new normal for survival. a slightly smaller pay slip is better than the dole.
The “slightly* smaller pay slip is better than the dole” comment is one of the most ignorant for a while.
* for now. But in a race to the bottom, everyone has to get closer to the bottom at every opportunity, or you’ll lose. (The race)
https://www.lifeflight.org.au/page/careers/Aviation_Careers/Aviation_Positions_Available/Rotary_Wing_Co-Pilots/
I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....
Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
I see LifeFlight are looking for more "Co-Pilots".....
Certainly isn't a race to the bottom with these sorts of minimum requirements for a 500hr total heli time gig.
come on Belly, its not like that, look at Babcock, Toll and now PHI, all meeting the new market reality. BRS crews and engineers voted down the pay restructure idea, how can they compete if the work force won't help. They're all highly paid captains over there with no co pilots, they cant win a job. You need to work out your bottom is the new normal for survival. a slightly smaller pay slip is better than the dole.
I can never understand how they come up with some of those numbers. Only 100 hours PIC required, but they want Command Instrument Rating for a co-pilot position. If a guy is squared away enough to hold a Command Instrument Rating some of those other numbers seem quite meaningless.
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The “slightly* smaller pay slip is better than the dole” comment is one of the most ignorant for a while.
I have been on the dole before down at the dole office collecting my handout. the mrs hated it, kids to feed, mortgage to pay etc. Now i might have a slightly smaller pay slip than some in other companies or it might not be much smaller in reality. but i know that i will still have a job this time next year. i may be ignorant in your opinion but i am employed with good pay in my opinion. dole money doesnt care how big your pay slip is.
ignorant (but realistic) calling twisty, over
I have been on the dole before down at the dole office collecting my handout. the mrs hated it, kids to feed, mortgage to pay etc. Now i might have a slightly smaller pay slip than some in other companies or it might not be much smaller in reality. but i know that i will still have a job this time next year. i may be ignorant in your opinion but i am employed with good pay in my opinion. dole money doesnt care how big your pay slip is.
I have been on the dole before down at the dole office collecting my handout. the mrs hated it, kids to feed, mortgage to pay etc. Now i might have a slightly smaller pay slip than some in other companies or it might not be much smaller in reality. but i know that i will still have a job this time next year. i may be ignorant in your opinion but i am employed with good pay in my opinion. dole money doesnt care how big your pay slip is.
What about the third option: “industry standard payment”? (Hard won, and deserved. IMHO)
Are you assuming that if one operator had not decided to base their business model on “cheapest” and relied on pilots on the dole being willing to accept a lower Pay and conditions, and tender accordingly, that the operation on which you currently fly would have been shut down?
(I’d suggest another, more expensive/established operator would have been awarded the tender, and probably offered you a job, on “slightly more” remuneration than you are on now.)
We are arguing over very little. (And occasionally comparing individual circumstances with whole of industry concepts.)
I hope we can all stick together a bit, and not contribute to a race to the bottom, which will be bad for everyone, including the clients. (Eventually.)
Have a great day all my fellow pilots.
(You are all worth more money!)
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I can never understand how they come up with some of those numbers. Only 100 hours PIC required, but they want Command Instrument Rating for a co-pilot position. If a guy is squared away enough to hold a Command Instrument Rating some of those other numbers seem quite meaningless.
I think we all know that a fresh command instrument rating with no renewals is prob not the guy you want as a captain which is why you see the job adverts for captain asking for several renewals.
Just saying
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ok twisty, i won't argue if its not over much.
which tender?
(I’d suggest another, more expensive/established operator would have been awarded the tender, and probably offered you a job, on “slightly more” remuneration than you are on now.)
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What other type of instrument rating is there these days I think a command instrument rating is the only one you can get.
I think we all know that a fresh command instrument rating with no renewals is prob not the guy you want as a captain which is why you see the job adverts for captain asking for several renewals.
Just saying
I think we all know that a fresh command instrument rating with no renewals is prob not the guy you want as a captain which is why you see the job adverts for captain asking for several renewals.
Just saying
But the point still remains that if you already have a 139 type rating with a command instrument rating then you are probably already pretty well set up (and more than likely already gainfully employed on a multi), as gullibell alluded to.
Call me a sook but it was a kick in the balls for many when they took away the Co-Pilot Instrument rating and pretty much turned it into carbon copy of EASA IR requirements to have to shell out for an instrument rating in a twin to be employable in the Offshore/EMS world in Australia.
I've done Command IR renewals on a few helicopter pilots who supposedly had many previous IR renewals that were so mind boggling inept they shouldn't even hold a Co-pilot IR. So a pilot who has recently passed a Command IR initial to the proper standard should be OK to PIC an AW139 under IR, but obviously under line flying supervision of a TRI initially.
Is this a serious question?
The tender submitted to win the contract on which you are currently flying. (For “a little bit less”)
My suggestion is that had the lowest/winning bidder (your current employer) not submitted a tender, someone else would have won the work, and just as many pilots would be employed. (Hopefully you, on a slightly better wage.)
The “race to the bottom” which you deny, or don’t understand, is what your company is currently feeding.
When you were on the dole, you didn’t get cheaper petrol. You paid the going rate. (Despite the “new economic reality” you found yourself in.)
If someone started selling cheaper petrol by paying their staff less and having less of them, reducing their quality control, not paying their rent on time, and reducing their insurance coverage, we all might be happy for a while (those buying the fuel, not the staff!). Then to compete, in the race to the bottom, what do the other petrol stations selling less/no fuel do?
Under the model you are supporting, every new contract will required pilots taking a cut in Pay and conditions to compete. There is no end to it, or the consequences.
Have a great day.
The tender submitted to win the contract on which you are currently flying. (For “a little bit less”)
My suggestion is that had the lowest/winning bidder (your current employer) not submitted a tender, someone else would have won the work, and just as many pilots would be employed. (Hopefully you, on a slightly better wage.)
The “race to the bottom” which you deny, or don’t understand, is what your company is currently feeding.
When you were on the dole, you didn’t get cheaper petrol. You paid the going rate. (Despite the “new economic reality” you found yourself in.)
If someone started selling cheaper petrol by paying their staff less and having less of them, reducing their quality control, not paying their rent on time, and reducing their insurance coverage, we all might be happy for a while (those buying the fuel, not the staff!). Then to compete, in the race to the bottom, what do the other petrol stations selling less/no fuel do?
Under the model you are supporting, every new contract will required pilots taking a cut in Pay and conditions to compete. There is no end to it, or the consequences.
Have a great day.
