Lilium vertical take off "jet"
Initially funded by the European Union and supported by the European Space Agency and its Business Incubation Centre Bavaria
The "visionary" (quaaludes???) designers (aka ambitious permanent students) will live high on the hog for a few years just drawing silly pictures and issuing press statements before it all goes tits-up and they start again with another half decade of taxpayer-funded smoke, mirrors and champagne.
Not a bad lifestyle, all in all, even if it is ultimately one sponged off the taxpayer (ie us) with nowt to show for it.
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this looks like
LightningStrike X-Plane ? Aurora
it is going to use the AE1107 turboshaft as used in the v-22 to drive 3 x 1 megawatt generators
will weigh 12000lb, 3000lb of fuel and 1500lb of payload
LightningStrike X-Plane ? Aurora
it is going to use the AE1107 turboshaft as used in the v-22 to drive 3 x 1 megawatt generators
will weigh 12000lb, 3000lb of fuel and 1500lb of payload
Thread Starter
NASA just disclosed design of their X57 experimental electric plane.
They too are exploring many small props rather than a couple of large fans.
The small props on leading edge are used for takeoff and landing, larger motors on wing tips used in cruise.
NASA's X-57 Hybrid Electric Research Plane | NASA
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/na...umber-new-name
This one doesn't seem to have VTOL capability.
Yes, image is an artists impression.
Mickjoebill
They too are exploring many small props rather than a couple of large fans.
The small props on leading edge are used for takeoff and landing, larger motors on wing tips used in cruise.
NASA's X-57 Hybrid Electric Research Plane | NASA
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/na...umber-new-name
This one doesn't seem to have VTOL capability.
Yes, image is an artists impression.
Mickjoebill
Last edited by mickjoebill; 18th Jun 2016 at 05:58.
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Concepts like this have been done before. There was a Cessna 150(?) which was fitted with a tiny wing all within the propwash and on its sole flight appeared to fly very well - right up to the point where the engine stopped, revealing the essential weakness of the concept. When I get home I'll loook out the references for that one.
PDR
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Don't know if I believe the claims made by NASA for the benefits of this concept.
"NASA’s aeronautical innovators hope to validate the idea that distributing electric power across a number of motors integrated with an aircraft in this way will result in a five-time reduction in the energy required for a private plane to cruise at 175 mph."
They claim the thinner wing will reduce drag in cruise flight. But it does not seem to come close to offsetting the added drag/weight of the 12 electric propellers that are not used in cruise flight.
"NASA’s aeronautical innovators hope to validate the idea that distributing electric power across a number of motors integrated with an aircraft in this way will result in a five-time reduction in the energy required for a private plane to cruise at 175 mph."
They claim the thinner wing will reduce drag in cruise flight. But it does not seem to come close to offsetting the added drag/weight of the 12 electric propellers that are not used in cruise flight.
Thread Starter
The Venture Capitalist company "Atomico" are backing Lilium Aviation to the tune of €10M
Atomico - Great companies can come from anywhere
New pictures of the prototype/mockup
Big announcement
Mickjoebill
Atomico - Great companies can come from anywhere
New pictures of the prototype/mockup
Big announcement
Mickjoebill
Last edited by mickjoebill; 7th Dec 2016 at 00:31.
Thread Starter
Lilium test flight
It flys.(unmanned)
https://youtu.be/ohig71bwRUE
For a measure of the potential significance of this test flight, read the previous posts from the many whom doubted it was possible.
Mickjoebill
https://youtu.be/ohig71bwRUE
For a measure of the potential significance of this test flight, read the previous posts from the many whom doubted it was possible.
Mickjoebill
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 20th Apr 2017 at 22:48. Reason: MJB, it's time you learned how to insert a YouTube link
Nice video editing
[QUOTE=mickjoebill;9747213]It flys.(unmanned)
https://youtu.be/ohig71bwRUE
Mickjoebill,
Please rewatch the video and pay close attention to the editing cut from the full scale non flying mockup to a much smaller flying model.
Also notice that the landing gear is different and no one is photographed next to the flying mode to give a reference to scale.
https://youtu.be/ohig71bwRUE
Mickjoebill,
Please rewatch the video and pay close attention to the editing cut from the full scale non flying mockup to a much smaller flying model.
Also notice that the landing gear is different and no one is photographed next to the flying mode to give a reference to scale.
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Erm...that looked like an RC model at about 1/4-1/3 scale (compare its size to the taxiway it landed on, and look at the wobble when it first lifted off).
If so I'm not sure what it proved.
PDR
If so I'm not sure what it proved.
PDR
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I was laughing so loud I nearly peed myself watching it, it was clearly a RC scale model, the video was a nicely edited bt of junk.
I'll take more interest when they fly with a person in the cockpit.
I'll take more interest when they fly with a person in the cockpit.
Thread Starter
Hey CTR, PDR1 and Fatmanmedia, in response to your claims about the video, Lilium Aviation posted the following;
As a founder, I can guarantee on behalf of our amazing investors and all you people out there, we did NOT use CGI or a size scaled model. This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept.
Their published timeline is for the first manned flight in 2019.
Mickjoebill
As a founder, I can guarantee on behalf of our amazing investors and all you people out there, we did NOT use CGI or a size scaled model. This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept.
Their published timeline is for the first manned flight in 2019.
Mickjoebill
Last edited by mickjoebill; 21st Apr 2017 at 17:16.
Please provide weight data
I am willing to be convinced with two pieces of data.
Flying model size compared to non flying prototype shown earlier in the video.
Most importantly, the flying models actual weight.
Flying model size compared to non flying prototype shown earlier in the video.
Most importantly, the flying models actual weight.
Thread Starter
A multicamera recording, along with a personal guarantee from Paddy, a co-founder, that it is their full size two seater in the video has already answered your first data request..but you still don't believe them, because...?
Mickjoebill
Because I have done the math...
Mic,
I don't believe because I am an engineer and have done the math. Battery and motor technology is not viable yet. And will likely not be for 10 to 20 years at best.
Regarding scale, the founder stated "This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept". He did not state it it was the same generous size as the mockup shown earlier in the video. I believe it is about 3/4 scale at best.
Regarding weight, I have seen mockups of full scale cars flying. Using one or two pies of composite cloth you could make a good scale size Lilium model that weighed under a 60 lbs fly. But this is far less difficult than what is required to make a real two passenger weight aircraft fly.
So give me real dimensions and weight of what is flying in the video. Then I can check my math.
I don't believe because I am an engineer and have done the math. Battery and motor technology is not viable yet. And will likely not be for 10 to 20 years at best.
Regarding scale, the founder stated "This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept". He did not state it it was the same generous size as the mockup shown earlier in the video. I believe it is about 3/4 scale at best.
Regarding weight, I have seen mockups of full scale cars flying. Using one or two pies of composite cloth you could make a good scale size Lilium model that weighed under a 60 lbs fly. But this is far less difficult than what is required to make a real two passenger weight aircraft fly.
So give me real dimensions and weight of what is flying in the video. Then I can check my math.
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So all this happened at an airfield in Germany?
If it is a full-size, remotely piloted version where are the certification papers and NOTAMs required for legally flying an untethered SUAV of that size? Germany has rules about that sort of thing.
Personally I'm still sceptical and will remain so until the videos stop using the typical tricks used to obfuscate the size - showing it with nothing at all in the frame to scale it being one of the main ones.
I also don't believe that fans which are lifting what must be over 1,000kg of airframe could be anything like that quiet.
PDR
If it is a full-size, remotely piloted version where are the certification papers and NOTAMs required for legally flying an untethered SUAV of that size? Germany has rules about that sort of thing.
Personally I'm still sceptical and will remain so until the videos stop using the typical tricks used to obfuscate the size - showing it with nothing at all in the frame to scale it being one of the main ones.
I also don't believe that fans which are lifting what must be over 1,000kg of airframe could be anything like that quiet.
PDR
Thread Starter
"This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept".
Do you agree that what was flown was a full size two seater craft, ie of a size that could fit two adults?
Mickjoebill
