EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016
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EASA vs Airbus
Looks to me like a quasi disagreement between EASA and Airbus. EASA check MGB health and control rod attachment. Airbus check control rod attachment only. How could Airbus not consider MGB health given the lack of the epicyclic component? HMMM!
Let's not confuse things. Not a control rod but a suspension bar.
yes suspension rod.
Turkey asked a great question!
Auto Correct Strikes again.....Tarkay is in no ways a "Turkey"!
Interesting question!
Kinda reminds me of Transmission Mount issues on the early Jet Boxes!
If one leg of the tripod breaks, it seems that the rotor will come off. I don't know, but having the entire rotor/mast held on with a single 12 or so mm pin seems a bit risky.
Kinda reminds me of Transmission Mount issues on the early Jet Boxes!
Last edited by SASless; 4th May 2016 at 00:01.
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Let's not confuse things. Not a control rod but a suspension bar.
donut king If you don't know the difference perhaps you should keep your speculations to yourself.
Being an advisor and making such biased and unverified statements doesn't bode well.
But then again this thread is populated by a lot of people who have made more comment on this topic than any other, ever, so he is unlikely to be who he claims.
Yup. Horrible to think about what must go through the minds of the engineers involved especially given that maintenance error appears to be a very real possibility.
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given that maintenance error appears to be a very real possibility.
Is it true that the person who started the online petition is a UK Independence Party candidate in Rochdale, Lancashire standing for election this week?
Kinda reminds me of Transmission Mount issues on the early Jet Boxes!
Last edited by zalt; 3rd May 2016 at 22:20.
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Checks of the fitting will probably require removal of the No1 engine.
The suspension bar pin is extracted through the firewall between the two engines once a panel has been removed.
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What annoys me is that HUMS support is also a very expensive option. An AH tax on safety.
In this day and age such support should be provided by the manufacturer as a matter of course without someone making money out of it.
My first hand experience is that HUMS installations and collected data is well within area of industrial secret, all against general safety of operations. That is the one and only reason why some OEM real time HUMS HW & SW is not already running now days in front of pilots at last on advisory level....
Last edited by 9Aplus; 4th May 2016 at 08:43.
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They have the bottom end of the forward suspension bar, I think they don't have the front suspension bar fitting yet.
If they find this fitting, and this fitting is un-damaged then 2 solutions:
Maintenance...
Pin shear under fatigue or corrosion or.... highly un-probable but...has to be checked
If they find this fitting, and this fitting is un-damaged then 2 solutions:
Maintenance...
Pin shear under fatigue or corrosion or.... highly un-probable but...has to be checked
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According to the eyewithnessesand to the damage on the aircraft, i think it is not possible that the accident is caused by a broken suspensionbar/bolt/fitting, especially not the forward one.
The eyewithness told that the aircraft was sideway wobbling , then there came 3-4 cracksound(epicyclic/ringgear+3 suspension bars?), then the rotor an AC separated. The Rotor then flew/fell to one side(guess it has to do with the direction of rotorspinning) and the AC to the other side.
Her is a translation , and a link to one of the eyewithness:
« I was outside with my daughter, i heard the helicopter comming, so i picked her up and pointed at the helicopter.
I told my daughter «there is daddys northsea-helicopter»
After 3-4 seconds it started to wobble very much back and forth, and then there came 2-3-4 quite large «bangs», and i can see that parts are separating from the helicopter, most likeley the gear.
Then i see the rotor goes off the helicopter, and the helicopter fell to the ground»
He then says:
«The helicopter flew normal, then i saw it wobble and heard a «bang», after about two seconds i heard one more «bang» and then the helicopter goes straight to the ground»
Øyenvitne: ? Jeg så at rotoren falt av ? deretter gikk helikopteret i bakken - NRK Hordaland - Lokale nyheter, TV og radio
If one of the supensionbar failed, i would think that the rotor would behave another way, it looks like it is ripped right of. The MGB module was also remaining on the AC
Pretty strange that the slidingcowling seems to have no big damage.
The eyewithness told that the aircraft was sideway wobbling , then there came 3-4 cracksound(epicyclic/ringgear+3 suspension bars?), then the rotor an AC separated. The Rotor then flew/fell to one side(guess it has to do with the direction of rotorspinning) and the AC to the other side.
Her is a translation , and a link to one of the eyewithness:
« I was outside with my daughter, i heard the helicopter comming, so i picked her up and pointed at the helicopter.
I told my daughter «there is daddys northsea-helicopter»
After 3-4 seconds it started to wobble very much back and forth, and then there came 2-3-4 quite large «bangs», and i can see that parts are separating from the helicopter, most likeley the gear.
Then i see the rotor goes off the helicopter, and the helicopter fell to the ground»
He then says:
«The helicopter flew normal, then i saw it wobble and heard a «bang», after about two seconds i heard one more «bang» and then the helicopter goes straight to the ground»
Øyenvitne: ? Jeg så at rotoren falt av ? deretter gikk helikopteret i bakken - NRK Hordaland - Lokale nyheter, TV og radio
If one of the supensionbar failed, i would think that the rotor would behave another way, it looks like it is ripped right of. The MGB module was also remaining on the AC
Pretty strange that the slidingcowling seems to have no big damage.
Last edited by helili; 4th May 2016 at 10:25.
The FWD suspension bar and its airframe fitting are located in the No1 engine bay. It has a protective fire proof metal shield over it. The lower end of the bar and fitting are not visible in normal operation.
Checks of the fitting will probably require removal of the No1 engine.
The suspension bar pin is extracted through the firewall between the two engines once a panel has been removed.
Checks of the fitting will probably require removal of the No1 engine.
The suspension bar pin is extracted through the firewall between the two engines once a panel has been removed.
Also, the pins should be clearly marked so one can easily identify them. There seems to be at least one instance of an incorrect pin being installed which was caught on ground run up. Or redesign so all three are the same.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/578...ml#post9364808
And, maybe an inspection procedure should be developed using a camera/bore scope so the engine does not have to be removed to inspect.
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Maybe it would be helpful to rename the "suspension bar pin" to "Jesus pin". Not as technically descriptive but maybe more appropriate to it's importance.
Also, the pins should be clearly marked so one can easily identify them. There seems to be at least one instance of an incorrect pin being installed which was caught on ground run up. Or redesign so all three are the same.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/578...ml#post9364808
And, maybe an inspection procedure should be developed using a camera/bore scope so the engine does not have to be removed to inspect.
Also, the pins should be clearly marked so one can easily identify them. There seems to be at least one instance of an incorrect pin being installed which was caught on ground run up. Or redesign so all three are the same.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/578...ml#post9364808
And, maybe an inspection procedure should be developed using a camera/bore scope so the engine does not have to be removed to inspect.
Post installation hardware can be checked for installation with a boroscope from the gearbox end going in through the Suspension bar hole in the rear firewall.
Torque checking of the suspension bar airframe fittings hardware will require MRH fairing /Engine/interior trim removal.
dipperm0
Nothing is improbable at this stage of the investigation. Improper material, heat-treat. process finish, anti-corrosion coating, or any number of other causes. But also failure originating from corrosion pitting or wear originating from either the pin, bar or airframe fitting. There are numerous potential root-causes and it is way too early in the investigative process to try and guess the cause. Guessing never resolved a single accident investigation.
I have great faith in the ability of the investigation to determine the probable cause based upon the resources of all the entities involved. My thoughts are with all the families, colleagues and employees affected by this awful occurrence.
Pin shear under fatigue or corrosion or.... highly un-probable but...has to be checked
I have great faith in the ability of the investigation to determine the probable cause based upon the resources of all the entities involved. My thoughts are with all the families, colleagues and employees affected by this awful occurrence.
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While the press briefing yesterday has ruled out human error by the pilots, does anyone know if CHC are looking after their engineers in Norway?
I imagine that having fitted a new gearbox only the day before that there may be some fairly distressed people working in engineering and I would like to think that there is support in place for them.
I imagine that having fitted a new gearbox only the day before that there may be some fairly distressed people working in engineering and I would like to think that there is support in place for them.
Question for those that actually know, is there any way to visually distinguish the different sized pins when they are installed? Different heads or pin orientation perhaps.