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EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016

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EC225 crash near Bergen, Norway April 2016

Old 2nd Jun 2016, 13:53
  #1081 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Stuttgart
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
To me, if the point relates to equipment that was not installed on the helicopter at the time of the crash, it is totally irrelevant. What we in UK call a red herring. But if you just want to dig up dirt then perhaps it is relevant.
It is relevant to anyone who would like to understand the cause of the breakdown incident.

If you are sure that the MGB and MRH was changed at the dates claimed,
I agree its irrelevant to you.

If so may I ask how you can be sure?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 14:24
  #1082 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Where now?

... so where do we go from here?

Both Puma and S92 have had catastrophic MGB problems since 2009. Then there were the non fatal bevel gear and associated problems. Ditchings due to false alarms in the back up lube systems etc. Hell it's not like the industry hasn't tried to improve this.

Todays news could hardly be worse.

If the Puma ends here does AH have enough comnercial incentive to design an "all new" replacement?

How can we ensure that redesigns don't create problems of their own?

This is now an industry in need of some serious technical leadership.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 14:27
  #1083 (permalink)  
 
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I'm thinking of setting up a new business renting out rowing boats.

But as I've said before, helicopter flying is a bit dangerous, get over it. Using the roads, drinking and smoking, eating too much are far more dangerous. Why don't you care about that?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 14:32
  #1084 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
To me, if the point relates to equipment that was not installed on the helicopter at the time of the crash, it is totally irrelevant. What we in UK call a red herring. But if you just want to dig up dirt then perhaps it is relevant.
I agree, but that assume you have information that the gearbox was changed as claimed?

May I ask how you know that for sure?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 14:35
  #1085 (permalink)  

 
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UK CAA extends grounding
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/...ve2016003..pdf
  • 2.2 Operators and pilots must not conduct any flight with an Airbus Helicopters EC225LP or AS332L2 helicopter.


So that now includes SAR

airsound
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 14:55
  #1086 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
I'm thinking of setting up a new business renting out rowing boats.

But as I've said before, helicopter flying is a bit dangerous, get over it. Using the roads, drinking and smoking, eating too much are far more dangerous. Why don't you care about that?
Thanks. It's a bit dangerous. I'm over it now.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:08
  #1087 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
I'm thinking of setting up a new business renting out rowing boats.

But as I've said before, helicopter flying is a bit dangerous, get over it. Using the roads, drinking and smoking, eating too much are far more dangerous. Why don't you care about that?
I bet your name is Will, and next you're gonna tell us to get "our big boys pants on"...wonder if Mr. Barbier regrets that he even got out of bed that day. But then again, people like that seldom care about other peoples feelings.

Oil workers were told to put on 'big-boy pants' at safety meeting before Shetland helicopter crash | Daily Mail Online

If you're even a offshore helicopter pilot...some of the things you say here tells me you 're probably not...with the mockery and ridicule of peoples fear and concerns. Not a nice attitude for sure.

Last edited by TommyL; 2nd Jun 2016 at 16:18.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:14
  #1088 (permalink)  
 
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Does anybody know what the reliability programme contains in relation to this epicyclic failure?
The reliability programme should identify individual gearbox constituent component parts that fail inspection during overhaul in the strip report.
Surely there's a failure rate of this planetary gear identified in the reliability programme, if not why not on such an important critical component as a gearbox?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:19
  #1089 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
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CHC held press conference

CHC-sjefen: - Vi har ikke tilgang til girkassen - Bergens Tidende

Short summary
Gearbox changed in January:

Ny girkasse i januar

- Vi følger et vedlikeholdsprogram som tilsier at girboksen etter 4400 flytimer sendes til en leverandør som utfører vedlikehold, sier Roland videre.

Girboksen på ulykkeshelikopteret ble installert i januar. Under vedlikehold blir enkelte deler utbedret, mens andre blir skiftet helt ut.

Roland vil ikke svare på om planetgiret, som ifølge Havarikommisjonen er utsatt for tretthetsbrudd, ble skiftet ut i januar.

- Jeg kan ikke gå inn på spesifikke opplysninger om de ulike delene.


English:

"We are following a maintenance program that demands that the gearbox after 4400 hours is sent to a supplier that performs maintenance, says Roland further.

The gearbox on the the accident aircraft was installed in January.
During maintenance some parts are improved, others are completely changed

Roland does not want to answer if the planetary gear, that according to AIBN
is exposed to fatigue crack, was changed in January.

- I cannot go into specific information about the different parts."



So from this it becomes clear that the "new" gearbox installed in January
also could be an old one with some changed parts, which makes it clear, to me, we are not speaking about a brand new unit.

If the same unit that was removed from LN-OJF, sent to maintenance and
sent back to CHC after the maintenance. Is not clear.

It is also not clear who is doing the maintenance. But I have my suspicions.
May it be also a matter of investigation what exactly was changed in the gearbox or not
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:22
  #1090 (permalink)  
 
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If the Puma ends here does AH have enough commercial incentive to design an "all new" replacement?
It's already in the pipeline: the X6, although a few years away still.
http://www.airbushelicopters.com/web...ess/_1771.html
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:31
  #1091 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by turboshafts View Post
Does it mean that contaminated oil from the old epi
can also come in and deteriorate in an new MGB if not
clean/flushed out sufficiently? or are there separate lubrication circuits?
There would be no oil "in" the epi. The oil is sprayed into the box (obviously) and drains to the sump. So, no, there would be no oil to "contaminate". Even if there was any debris in the oil, there's the oil filter and chip detectors to contend with
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:40
  #1092 (permalink)  
 
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It is reported in the media now that the gearbox was subject to some "unkind" treatment during transport, was damaged and had to go back for repairs before the installation in January.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:56
  #1093 (permalink)  
 
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It is reported in the media now that the gearbox was subject to some "unkind" treatment during transport, was damaged and had to go back for repairs before the installation in January.

Do you have a link to the source ?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 15:59
  #1094 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
What other methods of monitoring would you suggest?
Perhaps something "real time" like

http://www.gastops.com/products/metalscan/ms-1000/
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 16:03
  #1095 (permalink)  
 
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Where has the report of 'unkind treatment' come from? and seems odd that this has not been mentioned in any reports?
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 16:06
  #1096 (permalink)  
 
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When Bristow was developing its IHUMS system back in the early 90s they trialled such a full flow debris monitoring system, however it was deemed ineffective and dropped from the programme, although I can't remember exactly why.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 16:18
  #1097 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HeliComparator View Post
When Bristow was developing its IHUMS system back in the early 90s they trialled such a full flow debris monitoring system, however it was deemed ineffective and dropped from the programme, although I can't remember exactly why.
I also remember trials in the military in the 90s that weren't too successful by I believe the new generation kit is being used successfully on the Merlin, F35 and some other platforms.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 16:19
  #1098 (permalink)  
 
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Most of the measures to check oil quality so far amount to a slightly higher tech version of scraping the oil off the magnetic plug and rubbing it between a finger and thumb and cutting open the oil filter to check for bits of debris.

Newer methods of real time, in flight, monitoring need to be developed. Doubtless this will lead to more alarms and precautionary landings, but it is better than the alternative.

The idea of irradiating components and then monitoring filters and plugs for the build up of radioactive particles due to wear has some merit, but I'm not sure environmentalists or even passengers and crew would be entirely happy.
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 16:27
  #1099 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by G0ULI View Post
Most of the measures to check oil quality so far amount to a slightly higher tech version of scraping the oil off the magnetic plug and rubbing it between a finger and thumb and cutting open the oil filter to check for bits of debris.

Newer methods of real time, in flight, monitoring need to be developed. Doubtless this will lead to more alarms and precautionary landings, but it is better than the alternative.

The idea of irradiating components and then monitoring filters and plugs for the build up of radioactive particles due to wear has some merit, but I'm not sure environmentalists or even passengers and crew would be entirely happy.
I don't imaging that the engineers or o/h shop would be too please with irradiated components either
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Old 2nd Jun 2016, 16:27
  #1100 (permalink)  
 
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It is also not clear who is doing the maintenance. But I have my suspicions.
The Gearbox overhaul was performed by Heli One
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