24th Feb 2016: EC 135 crash in northern germany
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Have the UK police fitted cockpit voice recorders and HUMS following the Glasgow crash? It was a AAIB recommendation I believe.
4.1 Safety Recommendations
The following Safety Recommendations have been made:
.
.
Safety Recommendation 2015-031
It is recommended that, when the Civil Aviation Authority require a radio altimeter to be fitted to a helicopter operating under a Police Air Operator’s Certificate, it also stipulates that the equipment is capable of being powered in all phases of flight, including emergency situations, without intervention by the crew.
Safety Recommendation 2015 - 032
It is recommended that the Civil Aviation Authority requires all helicopters operating under a Police Air Operators Certificate, and first issued with an individual Certificate of Airworthiness before 1 January 2018, to be equipped with a recording capability that captures data, audio and images in crash survivable memory. They should, as far as reasonably practicable, record at least the parameters specified in The Air Navigation Order, Schedule 4, Scale SS(1) or SS(3) as appropriate. They should be capable of recording at least the last two hours of (a) communications by the crew, including Police Observers carried in support of the helicopter’s operation, and (b) images of the cockpit environment. The image recordings should have sufficient coverage, quality and frame rate characteristics to include actions by the crew, control selections and instrument displays that are not captured by the data recorder. The audio and image recorders should be capable of operating for at least 10 minutes after the loss of the normal electrical supply.
Safety Recommendation 2015-033
It is recommended that the Civil Aviation Authority requires all helicopters operating under a Police Air Operators Certificate, and first issued with an individual Certificate of Airworthiness on or after 1 January 2018, to be fitted with flight recorders that record data, audio and images in crash-survivable memory. These should record at least the parameters specified in The Air Navigation Order, Schedule 4, Scale SS(1) or SS(3), as appropriate. They should be capable of recording at least the last two hours of (a) communications by the crew, including Police Observers carried in support of the helicopter’s operation, and (b) cockpit image recordings. The image recordings should have sufficient coverage, quality and frame rate characteristics to include control selections and instrument displays that are not captured by the other data recorders. The audio and image recorders should be capable of operating for at least 10 minutes after the loss of the normal electrical supply."
The answer to the question is No.
Isn't it something that I have equipment in my car, bought off the shelf from Maplins, that would cover the above recommendations (apart from the Rad Alt).
How many EC135's have crashed since they (the recommendations) were introduced?
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase...hp?AcType=EC35
Private - Australia
Jordan Public Security Department - Jordan
Bundespolizei - Germany
The only one that the recommendations would apply to, apparently already had the recommended kit fitted. (see Spunk's post above)
recommend
rɛkəˈmɛnd
verb
past tense: recommended; past participle: recommended
1.
put forward (someone or something) with approval as being suitable for a particular purpose or role.
2.
archaic
commend or entrust someone or something to (someone).
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It's very quiet on this subject.......not something I'm used to on this forum.....usually lots of opinions on every subject, but not so on this one....
Any (preliminary) findings to be expected from BFU anytime soon?
Any (preliminary) findings to be expected from BFU anytime soon?
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Until now there's nothing new. Even in the german aviation forums I usually track (flugzeugforum.de, helionline.de, ...) there's nothing.
Well, I know a guy at the BFU and just sent him an email about the progress of the investigation. Now I'm waiting for his response.
Thracian
Well, I know a guy at the BFU and just sent him an email about the progress of the investigation. Now I'm waiting for his response.
Thracian
It's a federal police a/c in the land of the manufacturer and in the land with the greatest EC135 fleet. 3 important reasons for the quitness. Nobody there wants wild speculations in public about that mission and the crash.
No informations will come out of this closed circle of accident board, police officers and manufacturer before the investigations are finished. A preliminary Report can be awaited in some months.
No informations will come out of this closed circle of accident board, police officers and manufacturer before the investigations are finished. A preliminary Report can be awaited in some months.
Thread Starter
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Yep, according to my "source", the monthly bulletin (in which all incidents of a month are described with a preliminary result or the current state of the investigations) for February will be published somewhere in May, maybe June.
Thracian
Thracian
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thracian, any chance of finding a source with some actual information? 
In the meantime, I'll be having omlettes with Harry Palmer
In the meantime, I'll be having omlettes with Harry Palmer
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Sid, he said that they already have worked out a scenario as "most likely" according to the available data and the progress of the investigation, but in his first response he unfortunately didn´t tell me any details...
Waiting for his second
And as I´m currently not living in Braunschweig (the city where the BFU is located) anymore, I´m not able to meet him for a beer or two at the airport restaurant.
Next time I´ll be visiting Germany again, the bulletin should already be published
Thracian
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
It's very quiet on this subject.......not something I'm used to on this forum.....usually lots of opinions on every subject, but not so on this one....
May be the known Rad Alt failure due to the shed bus problem without generators after the loss or the switch off of the engines. Can't see good chances to open the very unfortunately placed shed bus switch in pitch black night and dark cockpit while wearing NVGs autorotating from a few hundred feets. Additionally the 2D view through the NVGs.
I notice that it was another T2+
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
May be the known Rad Alt failure due to the shed bus problem without generators after the loss or the switch off of the engines. Can't see good chances to open the very unfortunately placed shed bus switch in pitch black night and dark cockpit while wearing NVGs autorotating from a few hundred feets. Additionally the 2D view through the NVGs.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
... is it really different in the T2+ and if so, why?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
So how come the Rad Alt on the P2+ is on the Essential Bus Bar?
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
D-HVBB is serial number 0146.
G-SASA - 0147
G-SCAA - 0151
G-BZRS - 0166
G-GWAA - 0174
G-KRNW - 0175
(G-WCAO - 0204)
Are we to assume that these airframes lose their rad alt in the event of both generators going offline? At what stage in the production line was the rad alt placed on the Ess Bus Bar and what caused that change?
Air ambulances are now more involved with night/24hr ops: will there be any retro changes or is there now so much money in the aa world that they can simply buy a different airframe
(well, someone said it was quiet here)
G-SASA - 0147
G-SCAA - 0151
G-BZRS - 0166
G-GWAA - 0174
G-KRNW - 0175
(G-WCAO - 0204)
Are we to assume that these airframes lose their rad alt in the event of both generators going offline? At what stage in the production line was the rad alt placed on the Ess Bus Bar and what caused that change?
Air ambulances are now more involved with night/24hr ops: will there be any retro changes or is there now so much money in the aa world that they can simply buy a different airframe
(well, someone said it was quiet here)
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
"Check height"
I think that little bit of 'more or less' might sometimes make quite a big difference.
Do Bar Alts give audio clues these days and the lag reduced to such a degree that in auto or in high rod that you would consider it more beneficial than a rad alt in areas of low lying ground?
Be interesting to hear how the Dutch would undertake autos at night in Mr S's world.
Is the Rad Alt discussion really worth being looked at in an area where AGL is more or less the same as MSL?
Do Bar Alts give audio clues these days and the lag reduced to such a degree that in auto or in high rod that you would consider it more beneficial than a rad alt in areas of low lying ground?
Be interesting to hear how the Dutch would undertake autos at night in Mr S's world.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Is the Rad Alt discussion really worth being looked at in an area where AGL is more or less the same as MSL?