Bell 429 STC granting FAA Increased gross weight
Thread Starter
Bell 429 STC granting FAA Increased gross weight
Is anyone aware of an STC that would allow the Bell 429 to be operated at a Gross Weight beyond 7,000 lbs, thus circumventing the limits of Part 27 certification?
This would be for a large USA Aeromedical Operator.
This would be for a large USA Aeromedical Operator.
Bell's decision to design the 429 around the FAR27/JAR27 rules was either incompetence or arrogance. That said, they will soon be starting to flight test the 300th 429, and with sales buoyant in most of the BRIC countries, maybe they aren't too bothered about those who fly under FAA/EASA regs anyway?
Kudos to the 429 which will soon surpass the combined production of the 222, 230 and 427, in quite quick time, too.
If ever there was a sniff of any way FAA or EASA would approve above the 7000lb FAR27/JAR27 limits, various manufacturers - both rotary and fixed wing - would have something to say. If you want to change the rules, you get all the players together to agree new rules together - not go out on a limb and risk your individual reputation. Rules are Rules, and it's fair if everyone plays by the Rules.
Kudos to the 429 which will soon surpass the combined production of the 222, 230 and 427, in quite quick time, too.
If ever there was a sniff of any way FAA or EASA would approve above the 7000lb FAR27/JAR27 limits, various manufacturers - both rotary and fixed wing - would have something to say. If you want to change the rules, you get all the players together to agree new rules together - not go out on a limb and risk your individual reputation. Rules are Rules, and it's fair if everyone plays by the Rules.
IOM Registry
Don't think this will happen, not any time soon anyway.
But,
The Isle of Man Registry accepts, Bell & Transport Canada certification and this then allows the Bell 429 to operate at the max increased weight.
Unfortunately they dont support Commercial Operations, I think. Could always ask.
They have 'M' Reg machines all over the world now.
https://www.gov.im/ded/Aircraft/?menu=aircraftregistry
Keepitup
But,
The Isle of Man Registry accepts, Bell & Transport Canada certification and this then allows the Bell 429 to operate at the max increased weight.
Unfortunately they dont support Commercial Operations, I think. Could always ask.
They have 'M' Reg machines all over the world now.
https://www.gov.im/ded/Aircraft/?menu=aircraftregistry
Keepitup
Last edited by Keepitup; 16th Sep 2015 at 12:57.
Thread Starter
My question should have been:
A pilot for a large aeromedical vendor in the USA, said that his employer was going to submit an STC to the FAA that if approved (it made sound more like "when approved")would grant them the capability to operate at a higher gross weight than the one imposed by Pt.27 certification.
This would be for operations under Pt.135 in the USA.
He said it was a done deal.
Would this be possible?
A pilot for a large aeromedical vendor in the USA, said that his employer was going to submit an STC to the FAA that if approved (it made sound more like "when approved")would grant them the capability to operate at a higher gross weight than the one imposed by Pt.27 certification.
This would be for operations under Pt.135 in the USA.
He said it was a done deal.
Would this be possible?
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Bell has increased the max gross weight of almost every model they've ever produced, at least in the past 50 years. They come up with a weight, and when the customers complain that there isn't enough payload, they increase it. No reason the 429 can't be increased also, the 412 weight was increased more than once. The real limiting factor is the landing gear, and if they can show the gear can handle the weight, it's easy enough to do. This is the reason the allowed weight for slingloads is higher than for internal loads.
GomerPylot - that bit is not in doubt. The issue is that an aircraft certified over 7000lb needs to conform to FAR29/JAR29 rules, which the 429 does not - and cannot be made to via an STC. Bell basically started with the wrong rulebook by basing the 429 on FAR27 rules instead of FAR29
Gomer - Refer to Note 5 of the TC Datasheet, the only additional requirements for the Max weight to 7,500 is addition of : RadAlt, HTAWS, CVR/FDR & Pulse Lightst.
As stated by Helihub, it comes down to FAR27 / 29 acceptance.
If FAA/EASA accept the aircraft at this weight under FAR27, all Hell will break out by other Manufacturers who stuck with the requirements of FAR27.
As stated by Helihub, it comes down to FAR27 / 29 acceptance.
If FAA/EASA accept the aircraft at this weight under FAR27, all Hell will break out by other Manufacturers who stuck with the requirements of FAR27.
There are no Marquess of Queensberry rules that obliges a regulator avoid the displeasure of a garden party of OEM's. They make the rules, modify them, grant the exemptions. "All Hell break out", sure, all the OEM's can hold their breath and turn blue. Many 429's are flying at the higher gross, so any authority can choose whether or not to accept - just like the ones that have already done so.
The misinformation and BS in this thread beggars belief.
Be careful drinking your own Koolaid.
Thread Starter
The 429s flying at increased gross weight are not flying under FAA or EASA jurisdiction.
Matter of fact, when Bell asked the FAA to increase the gross weight they were given a virtual bucket and shovel and told to head for the beach.
Russia, Brazil, India China, Pakistan, Canada (guess is where they manufacture the 429, hint hint), have their own certification "standards".
They can only hope to motivate the officials to increase Pt.27 limits....
It has been done before...
If more money needs to be invested in the right environment and that money can bring more sales, then it's a good investment...
Malabo, Malabo, Malabo...
Matter of fact, when Bell asked the FAA to increase the gross weight they were given a virtual bucket and shovel and told to head for the beach.
Russia, Brazil, India China, Pakistan, Canada (guess is where they manufacture the 429, hint hint), have their own certification "standards".
They can only hope to motivate the officials to increase Pt.27 limits....
It has been done before...
If more money needs to be invested in the right environment and that money can bring more sales, then it's a good investment...
Malabo, Malabo, Malabo...
No mention of Australia (among others)? 
http://www.bellhelicopter.com/MungoB...402_EN_WEB.pdf
To date, the Bell 429 increased gross weight has been approved by Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Ecuador, India, Indonesia, Israel, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Nigeria, Thailand, Venezuela and Vietnam.
