Flight Instructor Selection
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Flight Instructor Selection
I had a discussion with colleagues recently about the way we in the rotary wing world select and train flight instructors.
If we try to pin down 'Aviation Industry Best Practice' we can run into a conundrum. In the airline world (yes I know what you are going to say but I did say the 'aviation industry' without specifying the helicopter world) they do it like this:
1. Selection - you need to be recommended by the current training community.
2. Psychological Assessment - Visit to the 'trick-cyclist' to decide if you have the core qualities required for this demanding task.
3. At least one, maybe two 4-hour sim checks.
4. Technical exam - do you know your stuff?
If you pass that lot then you can qualify to instruct only after a comprehensive training course, months of mentoring and the regular checks to keep you up to scratch.
The question is "what do we do in the rotary world? Does any operator come even close to that degree of attention to detail when creating a new TRI?" I don't think so.
Your thoughts and contributions would be appreciated as i am trying to justify the assertion that we should also be adopting that approach because I have a feeling that the current systems employed are not producing what we need for trainers working on these complex new types. What exactly is the helicopter industry 'best practice'?
G.
If we try to pin down 'Aviation Industry Best Practice' we can run into a conundrum. In the airline world (yes I know what you are going to say but I did say the 'aviation industry' without specifying the helicopter world) they do it like this:
1. Selection - you need to be recommended by the current training community.
2. Psychological Assessment - Visit to the 'trick-cyclist' to decide if you have the core qualities required for this demanding task.
3. At least one, maybe two 4-hour sim checks.
4. Technical exam - do you know your stuff?
If you pass that lot then you can qualify to instruct only after a comprehensive training course, months of mentoring and the regular checks to keep you up to scratch.
The question is "what do we do in the rotary world? Does any operator come even close to that degree of attention to detail when creating a new TRI?" I don't think so.
Your thoughts and contributions would be appreciated as i am trying to justify the assertion that we should also be adopting that approach because I have a feeling that the current systems employed are not producing what we need for trainers working on these complex new types. What exactly is the helicopter industry 'best practice'?
G.
In the civil world, it is like this:
1. Selection - you need to have a pocketful of money.
2. Psychological Assessment - is this guy crazy enough to part with big bucks without having a job lined up afterwards?.
3. Put him through the course.
4. Try to squeeze a few more hours out of his bank account
If you pass that lot then you can qualify to instruct only after signing up for a Return of Service contract. Then work his @ss off because he is cheaper than the other Gr 1 or 2 instructors around.
1. Selection - you need to have a pocketful of money.
2. Psychological Assessment - is this guy crazy enough to part with big bucks without having a job lined up afterwards?.
3. Put him through the course.
4. Try to squeeze a few more hours out of his bank account
If you pass that lot then you can qualify to instruct only after signing up for a Return of Service contract. Then work his @ss off because he is cheaper than the other Gr 1 or 2 instructors around.
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After 39 years in the helicopter industry (flying), my opinion of what would be an industry "best practice", is not take low time, newly licenced pilots and think they should become qualified flight instructors.
A qualified instructor in my opinion should be able to draw upon years and flight hours, of valuable work experience to teach more than just a basic air exercise.
Mentoring of inexperienced pilots (or maintenence personell) seems to be becoming a lost practice these days.
Using instructing for time building to me, is a poor approach for a good start in this industry.
A qualified instructor in my opinion should be able to draw upon years and flight hours, of valuable work experience to teach more than just a basic air exercise.
Mentoring of inexperienced pilots (or maintenence personell) seems to be becoming a lost practice these days.
Using instructing for time building to me, is a poor approach for a good start in this industry.
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"Using instructing for time building to me, is a poor approach for a good start in this industry"
Hmmm then how does one get onto the merry go round of ' must have hours to get a job. Cant get hours unless you have a job - to get a job you must have hours ...etc.. ?
Suggestions on how to get the required time without instructing please.
Hmmm then how does one get onto the merry go round of ' must have hours to get a job. Cant get hours unless you have a job - to get a job you must have hours ...etc.. ?
Suggestions on how to get the required time without instructing please.
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I knew this would illicit some critical response. In Canada, commercial operators hire low time pilots very frequently....the next couple of years requires mentoring, teaching, and nurturing by other experienced company pilots and personell.....more and more responsibility is delegated to the newbie as he/she developes. During a lot of that time they have worked in the hangar also learning maintenance practices, and worked as ground crew support....works very well for us here.
Agreed, a high time pilot is no guarantee of a good instructor, Sir Korsky said it best that enthusiasm and a love for the industry makes for good instructors....I couldn't agree more...I take a break often and go back and help at a friends flight school here in BC and love to work with the ab initio and lessor experienced pilots.
I think we did the math a while back on the instructors at Chinook Helicopters, and the experience level sat at around 134 years and over 115,00 flight hours combined.....we see students arrive from every corner of the world to train here, one could ask any of them, and one would pretty much always hear they had a good instruction and value.
Canadian operators place a lot of credibility in a good product being turned out of the schools....they have been taught more than the basics. We are geographically blessed with unpredictable weather and mountains that are right out our back door....want to compare our 100 hour low timer to say a Florida sunny day candidate taught by a 160 instructor.....
Agreed, a high time pilot is no guarantee of a good instructor, Sir Korsky said it best that enthusiasm and a love for the industry makes for good instructors....I couldn't agree more...I take a break often and go back and help at a friends flight school here in BC and love to work with the ab initio and lessor experienced pilots.
I think we did the math a while back on the instructors at Chinook Helicopters, and the experience level sat at around 134 years and over 115,00 flight hours combined.....we see students arrive from every corner of the world to train here, one could ask any of them, and one would pretty much always hear they had a good instruction and value.
Canadian operators place a lot of credibility in a good product being turned out of the schools....they have been taught more than the basics. We are geographically blessed with unpredictable weather and mountains that are right out our back door....want to compare our 100 hour low timer to say a Florida sunny day candidate taught by a 160 instructor.....
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Hmmm then how does one get onto the merry go round of ' must have hours to get a job. Cant get hours unless you have a job - to get a job you must have hours ...etc.. ?
Now I'm not saying companies should pay for pedestrian-to-cpl training, but there are plenty of jobs which a 500hr pilot can do. And likewise, job requirements asking for 1000+hrs turbine time don't make sense to me. You might learn something for the first 50hrs of turbine flying, but the remaining 950hrs are no more "valuable" than flying an R44 for example.
It's the insurance companies that dictate the experience levels. If it costs the charter company $20,000 a year to have cover for all their 1000-hr-plus pilots but it costs $50,000 a year to have newbies, which way do you think they will go?
But in Oz we let newbies fly the simple stuff, and don't let them near an instructor rating until they have 400 hours. Or at least it used to be that, but the new Grade 3 starts them sooner, can't say yet if that is a good idea or not.
But in Oz we let newbies fly the simple stuff, and don't let them near an instructor rating until they have 400 hours. Or at least it used to be that, but the new Grade 3 starts them sooner, can't say yet if that is a good idea or not.
Much of this thread seems to be discussing the qualities required for ab initio instruction... apples and pears?
Personally I had 1500 hours before training as a QHI and, in the mil at least, this was regarded as a minimum because you had so little credibility without meaningful experience.
With 200 hours you know less than bugger all about helicopter flying and even less about teaching other people. Go and do a job to get experience before instructing - all this hours building guff is an excuse for paying less to teach the punters, rather than employing a suitably experienced pilot who won't work for bugger-all money.
Crab, this is clearly not ideal, but it is how it works in GA since... forever.
Without this path, there would likely be no GA. The military would be the sole source of helicopter training.
How could it ever work any other way?
Without this path, there would likely be no GA. The military would be the sole source of helicopter training.
How could it ever work any other way?
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KryptonJohn
No matter how much I wish to sympathise with your feelings about the pathways into the industry we are not doing ourselves any favours by using young bloods and flight instructors.
In the last eight years I have trained 350 pilots from 49 different countries and what I saw was on the whole pretty depressing. Whilst many could do their daily job well enough most were hopeless in the IFR environment despite having a current IR and similarly most struggled as soon as things started to go wrong.
If there is a general malaise out there then I suspect it is down to the paucity of good training both basic and advanced and to make a difference we need top class TRI's and SFI's who really know the art of 'teaching' rather than just 'course delivery'.
By allowing an affordable pathway to self-selected wannabes we are, in my opinion creating a downward spiral of standards and the current system of prof checks is doing nothing to help given it's repetitious and unambitious nature.
If we chose only the best to be the instructors of tomorrow in the same way as the major airlines then maybe we can turn this baby around - it isn't going to be quick and it isn't going to be easy. I'm for snuffing out 200 hour CFI's and forcing the industry to recruit into tailor made training programmes that deliver what the industry needs, competent aviators.
G.
In the last eight years I have trained 350 pilots from 49 different countries and what I saw was on the whole pretty depressing. Whilst many could do their daily job well enough most were hopeless in the IFR environment despite having a current IR and similarly most struggled as soon as things started to go wrong.
If there is a general malaise out there then I suspect it is down to the paucity of good training both basic and advanced and to make a difference we need top class TRI's and SFI's who really know the art of 'teaching' rather than just 'course delivery'.
By allowing an affordable pathway to self-selected wannabes we are, in my opinion creating a downward spiral of standards and the current system of prof checks is doing nothing to help given it's repetitious and unambitious nature.
If we chose only the best to be the instructors of tomorrow in the same way as the major airlines then maybe we can turn this baby around - it isn't going to be quick and it isn't going to be easy. I'm for snuffing out 200 hour CFI's and forcing the industry to recruit into tailor made training programmes that deliver what the industry needs, competent aviators.
G.
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It is true that a high time pilot does not necessarily make a good instructor, but neither does a low time pilot necessarily make a bad one. We've hired them here - they started off as students but we hired them because their qualities were obvious. One got sponsored as an instructor by the Guild and is now on the N Sea as a Captain in a very short time. I have flown with 1 000 hour ilots whith whom I would trust anything and 10 000 hour pilots with whom I wouldn't trust a pram.
The problem is that the basic training needs a little more. There is a lot you can include in the training that will form good habits for later life, but you can't get that experience without having done the job. That, to me, is more where the problem lies.
I have always though that there is room for a pilot finishing school, because you can't get a job with a basic licence anyway. It could be staffed by experienced pilots who wouldn't need to be FIs necessarily as the student could be the captain. Maybe that will be my next progression....
Phil
The problem is that the basic training needs a little more. There is a lot you can include in the training that will form good habits for later life, but you can't get that experience without having done the job. That, to me, is more where the problem lies.
I have always though that there is room for a pilot finishing school, because you can't get a job with a basic licence anyway. It could be staffed by experienced pilots who wouldn't need to be FIs necessarily as the student could be the captain. Maybe that will be my next progression....
Phil
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Instructors pay
- More experienced instructors require higher pay. That's unlikely to happen. Besides, you don't need an ATP to teach basic flying skills.
- I think that it's great that low time instructors teach zero time students for a number of reasons.
1) The lessons are fresh in the instructor's mind and since both have low time, the instructor and student can relate better.
2) There's no pressure to take a flight in marginal weather as is often the case in real-world flying. The instructor and student can stay at the home base and practice pattern work or hover work or ground school.
3) It's a great and safe way to build time.
4) It's income for the school.
5) To a new student, it's a reason to get that CFI or CFII certificate.
6) It gives all involved a chance to network and make contacts for that next job.
7) It keeps the cost of learning to fly within reach of what might otherwise be an impossible dream.
- I think that it's great that low time instructors teach zero time students for a number of reasons.
1) The lessons are fresh in the instructor's mind and since both have low time, the instructor and student can relate better.
2) There's no pressure to take a flight in marginal weather as is often the case in real-world flying. The instructor and student can stay at the home base and practice pattern work or hover work or ground school.
3) It's a great and safe way to build time.
4) It's income for the school.
5) To a new student, it's a reason to get that CFI or CFII certificate.
6) It gives all involved a chance to network and make contacts for that next job.
7) It keeps the cost of learning to fly within reach of what might otherwise be an impossible dream.
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FLY 911
Since when did aviation become a charity? From where I sit it isn't working. It feels like we are in a downward spiral where low time low experienced people are turning out too many substandard helicopter pilots.
If the industry is to survive the leap into modern technology machinery then we need to get real.
Giving people a hand up ? All for it, but what we have now is the wrong kind of hand up. We need to realise that we need structured courses for people selected on the basis of skill and aptitude.
Self-selection on the basis of whoever can get the money simply isn't a sensible way forward. It's illogical, dangerous and will not deliver a safe and effective helicopter industry.
G.
If the industry is to survive the leap into modern technology machinery then we need to get real.
Giving people a hand up ? All for it, but what we have now is the wrong kind of hand up. We need to realise that we need structured courses for people selected on the basis of skill and aptitude.
Self-selection on the basis of whoever can get the money simply isn't a sensible way forward. It's illogical, dangerous and will not deliver a safe and effective helicopter industry.
G.
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Most points are valid in this discussion, a student will only be as good as their instruction. The qualities of a good instructor are alot to do with the individuals' characteristics and their ability to relay the subject matter dependent on the students learning styles and aptitude. But without the experience, it can be hard to convey the impact and justification of that teaching aspect.
Many newly qualified pilots would jump at the chance to mentored and supervised to better their skills and abilities, I am one of them, but sadly there are not many such opportunities, and scrimping to achieve FI to gain some employment in the industry is the rung that most can get to first.
Additiojnal courses following qualification would also be great, but a self sponsored individual would rather spend the money on an FI or IR to progress employment, if a CPL pass plus becomes compulsory, are we pricing out people joining the aviation fraternity?
Many newly qualified pilots would jump at the chance to mentored and supervised to better their skills and abilities, I am one of them, but sadly there are not many such opportunities, and scrimping to achieve FI to gain some employment in the industry is the rung that most can get to first.
Additiojnal courses following qualification would also be great, but a self sponsored individual would rather spend the money on an FI or IR to progress employment, if a CPL pass plus becomes compulsory, are we pricing out people joining the aviation fraternity?