Urban firefighting UK
Thread Starter
Urban firefighting UK
Is there someone who can give a professional opinion on why the fire service doesn't contract and deploy helicopters with fire buckets for major fires like Eastbourne Pier? Also another one now been burning for several days in a Wiltshire recycling centre. Both difficult to properly access with conventional hoses aiming relatively small amounts off artefact the source. One Super Puma could probably have doused them pretty quickly I would have thought ??
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Money.
Public funded services are still cutting back, the initiatives that the various fire services have tried in the past either involved 'sharing' such as the police/hems model and really never lasted beyond trial periods, or being frightened off when the true cost of running a specialist fire helicopter unit became clear. Having something the size of a puma on standby at a location near enough to make a difference (for Eastbourne pier at least) would soon be chopped when the next round of cuts were discussed.
Public funded services are still cutting back, the initiatives that the various fire services have tried in the past either involved 'sharing' such as the police/hems model and really never lasted beyond trial periods, or being frightened off when the true cost of running a specialist fire helicopter unit became clear. Having something the size of a puma on standby at a location near enough to make a difference (for Eastbourne pier at least) would soon be chopped when the next round of cuts were discussed.
Recent 9A example "CIOS" fire in Zagreb
Only water used, bucked was near on service, usually deployedvon coast line. No foam - but still useful for cooling off and limitingvfire power....
(picture by Petar Glebov/PIXSELL)
Only water used, bucked was near on service, usually deployedvon coast line. No foam - but still useful for cooling off and limitingvfire power....
(picture by Petar Glebov/PIXSELL)
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They'd probably do better to have a bambi bucket in stores and rent a helo to carry it when needed but response times to get a puma down to Eastbourne wouldn't be too good I suspect, plus the company would need a "dropping" exemption and a pilot who knew how to use the thing.
Just ain't practical.
As for buying a dedicated machine - oh, come on!
Just ain't practical.
As for buying a dedicated machine - oh, come on!
It's my understanding that the majority of times where PDG or others are used in the highlands they are contracted by the owner of the land rather than the fire service - stand to be corrected on that if i'm wrong though...
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It's my understanding that the majority of times where PDG or others are used in the highlands they are contracted by the owner of the land rather than the fire service
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Simply summed up by ABBA....... Money Money Money, it's a rich man's world.
And the fire service are seriously skint
And the fire service are seriously skint
Pennine Helis
Helicopter Charter | Helicopter Hire Services | Pennine Helicopters
They helped fight fire on Rishworth Moor the other year...
They helped fight fire on Rishworth Moor the other year...
Thread Starter
Thanks for comments so far. I was only using the Super Puma as an example...I am sure there are suitable helicopters nearer...e.g. The Met Police EC145s and having some strategically placed Bambi buckets would surely be more cost effective than the huge cost of trying to fight major blazes with multiple crews and fire appliances,,sometimes over a period of days. As to money,our local fire brigade troll around in a hovercraft to rescue holiday makers "stuck"in the mud at low tide so equipment purchases are not necessarily the issue,although I concede running and maintenance costs can be. I imagine too you would need to have crews trained for the task too.
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Mmmmm ...
... The Met Police EC145s and having some strategically placed Bambi buckets would surely be more cost effective ...
I would guess that the operating weight of these 145s would be such that the available payload for water would make them pretty much useless for water bombing ...
Removing all the 'Police' Ops gear would be impractical plus you need an available water pick up point reasonably close by ... for realistic practical purposes not a good idea.
... The Met Police EC145s and having some strategically placed Bambi buckets would surely be more cost effective ...
I would guess that the operating weight of these 145s would be such that the available payload for water would make them pretty much useless for water bombing ...
Removing all the 'Police' Ops gear would be impractical plus you need an available water pick up point reasonably close by ... for realistic practical purposes not a good idea.
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NZ Fire Buckets
In NZ theres 48 rescue helicopters all with fire buckets, plus a load of other commercial helicopter business that will help (for a fee) with large bush fires that are ongoing / take days to put out. In PPL and CPL fire bucket training is part of the NZ license (not sure if that the same for UK?) ... of course NZ can have a lot of bush fires and can be ripe at mid summer, so theres a call for it.
I did here from my bothering law who's in the RAF that the rescue helicopter service in the UK is going pubic (like in NZ) ... note this may be a rumor! But if thats the case you might find that more fire work maybe part of the change, most rescue services have to push any "Emergency help" they can so the government funding keeps rolling in ... although saying that most struggle and a lot of funding comes from public charity and / or running a commercial business with the rescue helicopter ... thank those that give, without them a good number would fold.
Oh and ... hi ... new here ... just thought I would join in
I did here from my bothering law who's in the RAF that the rescue helicopter service in the UK is going pubic (like in NZ) ... note this may be a rumor! But if thats the case you might find that more fire work maybe part of the change, most rescue services have to push any "Emergency help" they can so the government funding keeps rolling in ... although saying that most struggle and a lot of funding comes from public charity and / or running a commercial business with the rescue helicopter ... thank those that give, without them a good number would fold.
Oh and ... hi ... new here ... just thought I would join in
FF use of helicopter includes more wear & tear plus some
specific skills of crew, flight through the smoke can easy stop
the engines therefore some mods are recommended.
Heavy maintenance after, is good practice too.
Therefore use of some local helicopter & pilot is
Dedicated or helicopter used for regular sling work
is only vise choice....
specific skills of crew, flight through the smoke can easy stop
the engines therefore some mods are recommended.
Heavy maintenance after, is good practice too.
Therefore use of some local helicopter & pilot is
Dedicated or helicopter used for regular sling work
is only vise choice....
Avoid imitations
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Having done some of each, dropping a large quantity of water in an urban situation isn't the same as doing so on open ground. There are extra hazards to both the aircraft and occupants and to those in the vicinity on the ground.
Besides, unless the roof of the building has already gone, the water won't get to the seat of the fire.
If you even mention it to the CAA, they will need up to 28 days to consider each written application....
Besides, unless the roof of the building has already gone, the water won't get to the seat of the fire.
If you even mention it to the CAA, they will need up to 28 days to consider each written application....
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Not a helicopter but it worked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXACaeucJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVXACaeucJo
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jayteeto
Simply summed up by ABBA....... Money Money Money, it's a rich man's world.
And the fire service are seriously skint
Simply summed up by ABBA....... Money Money Money, it's a rich man's world.
And the fire service are seriously skint
HTC
9APlus
What are you smoking....? I have flown in the thickest smoke for years and there are no detrimental effects to our engines:
A helicopter would not have saved the pier..... the wood was burning pretty hot and a single drop would do nothing but take away the heat for a minute.
Helicopters really just cool the fire down to allow other methods to be used. Remember a fire needs 3 things, (well 4 but give me a minute), Heat, Oxygen and Fuel to burn---take away one of the three and there is no more wild fire.
Here in the US, the fourth element is "overhead" or "management" as you call it, (we call it hangers on earning a pycheck watching us work...)...with out that there is no fire......
flight through the smoke can easy stop the engines therefore some mods are recommended
A helicopter would not have saved the pier..... the wood was burning pretty hot and a single drop would do nothing but take away the heat for a minute.
Helicopters really just cool the fire down to allow other methods to be used. Remember a fire needs 3 things, (well 4 but give me a minute), Heat, Oxygen and Fuel to burn---take away one of the three and there is no more wild fire.
Here in the US, the fourth element is "overhead" or "management" as you call it, (we call it hangers on earning a pycheck watching us work...)...with out that there is no fire......