Max All Up Weight AS350/EC120/R66/206
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Arrrj if what the Bell guys say is true it's not going to be good news for the R66, you'd be mad to buy it over the 66.
Before anyone says anything I really rate the R44 and the R66 and certainly enjoy flying the 44 almost from the very begining.
Before anyone says anything I really rate the R44 and the R66 and certainly enjoy flying the 44 almost from the very begining.
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PhylingGuy,
I HAVE looked at both 66 and 505 boots (trunks) side by side and anyone with access to the internet can SEE that the mockup 505 and real 66 have significantly different size boots. There are pics on the web of 2 people sitting in the 66 boot, please post the same ones of the 505 ?
I wonder if you have actually seen the 505 ?
I have NOTHING against the 505, except the numbers are not "real" as the bloody thing has no flown yet. I hope it is good and flies really well. Why not ? We all like to fly nice machines, I hope it is a cracker. One of my mates has ordered one in Australia already, and no doubt I will get to fly it sooner than most. I look forward to it.
Pricing - my mates quote in AUD is $1.5 million plus 3% per year until built. That's double a 66.
So, sorry, not "blatantly false information"...anyone can check via the web.
Hughes 500
Yep, not MAUW, but 3 up, full fuel, and some other stuff...130 knots. This is well known, not just my experience. That said, I have flown 2 versions of the 66 that DO NOT even get to 130 knots...with nothing on board ! One does wonder why ? (No, that's not a rhetorical question, it's a real one !).
Tailboom
Be careful mate, praising the biggest selling helicopter brand in the world on prune can only bring you hate mail ! Facts do not count in this little battle.
PS - I don't care what it is that we fly, as long as it is fast, safe, powerful and able to be financed by us normal people. Oil sheiks, Russian oligarchs, DOTCOM billionaires etc are not included.
All the best,
Arrrj
I HAVE looked at both 66 and 505 boots (trunks) side by side and anyone with access to the internet can SEE that the mockup 505 and real 66 have significantly different size boots. There are pics on the web of 2 people sitting in the 66 boot, please post the same ones of the 505 ?
I wonder if you have actually seen the 505 ?
I have NOTHING against the 505, except the numbers are not "real" as the bloody thing has no flown yet. I hope it is good and flies really well. Why not ? We all like to fly nice machines, I hope it is a cracker. One of my mates has ordered one in Australia already, and no doubt I will get to fly it sooner than most. I look forward to it.
Pricing - my mates quote in AUD is $1.5 million plus 3% per year until built. That's double a 66.
So, sorry, not "blatantly false information"...anyone can check via the web.
Hughes 500
Yep, not MAUW, but 3 up, full fuel, and some other stuff...130 knots. This is well known, not just my experience. That said, I have flown 2 versions of the 66 that DO NOT even get to 130 knots...with nothing on board ! One does wonder why ? (No, that's not a rhetorical question, it's a real one !).
Tailboom
Be careful mate, praising the biggest selling helicopter brand in the world on prune can only bring you hate mail ! Facts do not count in this little battle.
PS - I don't care what it is that we fly, as long as it is fast, safe, powerful and able to be financed by us normal people. Oil sheiks, Russian oligarchs, DOTCOM billionaires etc are not included.
All the best,
Arrrj
Arrrj
If they are like a 500 I will tell you why. It is to do with chord balance on the blades plus weight of blade.have discovered on 500 blades that oem does not chord balance or weigh blades. Blades have been as much as 248 grams different in weight which means engineers have swept blades or tried to weight the hub which doesn't really work. This will sort out imbalance , however speed is a different thing. If chord balance is out then engineers will tab the blade to make it pitch up or down. This tabbing produces more drag. Recent example 500d with a mismatched set of blades had chord balance so far apart it was a joke max speed at 70 psi about 112 kts. Reprinted blades and chord balanced back to 130 kts ! Bet it is the same in your Robbins
If they are like a 500 I will tell you why. It is to do with chord balance on the blades plus weight of blade.have discovered on 500 blades that oem does not chord balance or weigh blades. Blades have been as much as 248 grams different in weight which means engineers have swept blades or tried to weight the hub which doesn't really work. This will sort out imbalance , however speed is a different thing. If chord balance is out then engineers will tab the blade to make it pitch up or down. This tabbing produces more drag. Recent example 500d with a mismatched set of blades had chord balance so far apart it was a joke max speed at 70 psi about 112 kts. Reprinted blades and chord balanced back to 130 kts ! Bet it is the same in your Robbins
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Hughes 500,
Thanks for the information, I will pass it to a mate who owns a "slow" 66, no doubt you are correct, and he can get the MR adjusted and get his speed back.
Thanks
Arrrj
Thanks for the information, I will pass it to a mate who owns a "slow" 66, no doubt you are correct, and he can get the MR adjusted and get his speed back.
Thanks
Arrrj
Arrrj... First, you and I both agree that the numbers aren't "real" until it flies! And I have nothing against the R66 either... it's sold a crap load because of the price point. But Bell now supposedly has over 200 "orders"... so we'll see how this plays out.
Yes, I have seen the 505 in person and I have a good idea of what it could hold and I believe the 18 ft3. I have searched (and I can't believe it), but I cannot find an image that Bell or anyone else has posted of the baggage bay yet.
Here's an image of the R66 baggage bay that I found though. imgur: the simple image sharer (I can't embed it for some reason)... which if you take the dimensions of 42*23*33 = 31878 = 18.4 f3.... which after you shrink it some more due to the unstandard nature it comes out to 18 ft3.
Now the 505 may be 18 ft3, but may have different dimensions in the build up.... maybe it's much wider and longer and not necessarily as high... or some other combination. Believable if you just look at this comparison
?
As for the price, I can't vouch for what your mates say, I just can't believe that Bell would publish around "a million bucks" with the base config and that sudden turn into 1.5... even with the AUD conversion.
Yes, I have seen the 505 in person and I have a good idea of what it could hold and I believe the 18 ft3. I have searched (and I can't believe it), but I cannot find an image that Bell or anyone else has posted of the baggage bay yet.
Here's an image of the R66 baggage bay that I found though. imgur: the simple image sharer (I can't embed it for some reason)... which if you take the dimensions of 42*23*33 = 31878 = 18.4 f3.... which after you shrink it some more due to the unstandard nature it comes out to 18 ft3.
Now the 505 may be 18 ft3, but may have different dimensions in the build up.... maybe it's much wider and longer and not necessarily as high... or some other combination. Believable if you just look at this comparison
?As for the price, I can't vouch for what your mates say, I just can't believe that Bell would publish around "a million bucks" with the base config and that sudden turn into 1.5... even with the AUD conversion.
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You are wrong on the price . I have ordered two and it is $1.075m which is not much more than the
R66 . When you allow for the fact that it has all L4 running kit plus a full glass cockpit I think it is incredible value !!!! I do admit that I hate Robinsons and never willingly fly in one !!!
R66 . When you allow for the fact that it has all L4 running kit plus a full glass cockpit I think it is incredible value !!!! I do admit that I hate Robinsons and never willingly fly in one !!!
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The 505 is AUD$1.3 million (apologies, not $1.5...lost in FX translation). Which is USD$1.07 (I have the contract in front of me), plus FX, + 3% for 3 years (min) until delivery.
I have actual photos of the 505 cargo hold, but need to load them to photo bucket (or such) to get them on here. It may calculate to be the same as a 66, but it is a completely different shape...very long and thin, I doubt it will be that useful and sure doesn't look anywhere near the 66. I guessed 1/3 the size, because that's what it looks like.
On the dedicated thread, there is a lot of comment on the 505, which may be of interest. As for the actual thread questions "MAUW" who knows ? Not even Bell at this stage.
Arrrj
PS _ Nigel, for a bloke who makes a lot of sense with your 109 comments (I have flown the type), you drop the ball when disrespecting Robbies ! 44 and 66 are good things to fly. (No idea about 22, never flown).
I have actual photos of the 505 cargo hold, but need to load them to photo bucket (or such) to get them on here. It may calculate to be the same as a 66, but it is a completely different shape...very long and thin, I doubt it will be that useful and sure doesn't look anywhere near the 66. I guessed 1/3 the size, because that's what it looks like.
On the dedicated thread, there is a lot of comment on the 505, which may be of interest. As for the actual thread questions "MAUW" who knows ? Not even Bell at this stage.
Arrrj
PS _ Nigel, for a bloke who makes a lot of sense with your 109 comments (I have flown the type), you drop the ball when disrespecting Robbies ! 44 and 66 are good things to fly. (No idea about 22, never flown).
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R44 MAUW
My Clipper 2 loaded up with full fuel, myself, wife, 6 yo daughter plus some bags is just under MAUW and cruises 110kts.
The 505 does sound interesting but I am not totally sold on the engine selection, I suppose time will tell.
I only have 10 hours in a R66, but every flight has impressed me, that machine has some performance alright !
The 505 does sound interesting but I am not totally sold on the engine selection, I suppose time will tell.
I only have 10 hours in a R66, but every flight has impressed me, that machine has some performance alright !
Robinson has sold a lot of R44's for a reason!
Just out of curiosity... not being sold on the engine... does it have to do with the engine itself or Turbomeca's reputation for support?
Just out of curiosity... not being sold on the engine... does it have to do with the engine itself or Turbomeca's reputation for support?
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I like the way people keep bashing the 120 and it's true when I first started flying them I hated it , but after a few hours and learning the best way to use it now I love it and would pick it over everything else in its class .
Let's not forget that the fuel tank on a 120 holds enough for 3 hours 20 minutes and you can fit as many people in the boot as you can in the seats , it's very
Pretty, it's Damn near silent when it flys past and you can pull past the red line the same you can anything else except the 120 will tell you when to lower the lever so you can keeps your eyes out the window ! You only need to call the engerneering if you ignore the horn and then only at the end of the day for some reason .
If money is not a consideration the it would be 350,120,505,206 and R66 never as its not a true 5 seater and it will probably fall apart in a strong wind
Let's not forget that the fuel tank on a 120 holds enough for 3 hours 20 minutes and you can fit as many people in the boot as you can in the seats , it's very
Pretty, it's Damn near silent when it flys past and you can pull past the red line the same you can anything else except the 120 will tell you when to lower the lever so you can keeps your eyes out the window ! You only need to call the engerneering if you ignore the horn and then only at the end of the day for some reason .
If money is not a consideration the it would be 350,120,505,206 and R66 never as its not a true 5 seater and it will probably fall apart in a strong wind
So Guys what would be the Heli you would buy if you had around £400/£500k and flew 3/4 people at any one time ?
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Hughes500
You pay about £250k for the engine every 15-19 years depending on condition ? Do R66 rotor blades last for 2400 hours like the other Robinson ? It's 20000 hrs for the blades on a 120 . That said the money argument might be a bit silly you buy what you can afford if there was no money issue then we would all be flying around in 429's
You pay about £250k for the engine every 15-19 years depending on condition ? Do R66 rotor blades last for 2400 hours like the other Robinson ? It's 20000 hrs for the blades on a 120 . That said the money argument might be a bit silly you buy what you can afford if there was no money issue then we would all be flying around in 429's
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PhlyingGuy
I had some dealings with Turbomeca a few years ago and it was a slow and expensive process. Otherwise, the Arrius 2F is a good engine and you can get a barrier filter.
I have to agree with Arrrj, I can't see the Bell 505 getting 125kts cruise when VNE on an L4 is 130kts and cruise is 109kts and it's the same rotor system..?
I had some dealings with Turbomeca a few years ago and it was a slow and expensive process. Otherwise, the Arrius 2F is a good engine and you can get a barrier filter.
I have to agree with Arrrj, I can't see the Bell 505 getting 125kts cruise when VNE on an L4 is 130kts and cruise is 109kts and it's the same rotor system..?