CPL-H +IR+ATPL Exams

[paco]

generally speaking anything over a year or so ago, but the best people to ask are the caa

phil

[RVR800]

Imminent EASA changes

The IR Exam requirement for CPLs wil change soon see

http://aopano.files.wordpress.com/20..._ir_v1-4-1.pdf

[RVR800]

Instrument Rating Changes Soon

Apologies see this link inctead - see flow charts

http://www.pplir.org/images/stories/...GA_IR_v1.4.pdf

[apb]

Paco, the "reduced" CPL(H) arrived to UK with the PART-FCL or with the amendment 6 JAR-FCL?

[paco]

No idea - all I know is that Amendment 6 changed everything

phil

[TimTooWindy]

PACO

I'm very relieved to have had a response from the UK CAA, which confirms I was initially wrongly quoted CAP804 Section 4 L 3.6 instead of confirming 4.2 {4 exams to complete for IR-H}which caused the confusion. However, Mr B Mooney's reply was both very prompt and detailed and he explained my current status regarding my ATPL theory credits. I'm very pleased with this outcome.

Below is an extract from Mr Mooney's letter, hopefully this may help a fellow pilot in a similar situation in the future:


I have reviewed your personnel licensing records and can confirm that you completed the ATPL(H)IR theoretical knowledge examination under UK CAA interim arrangements (JAR-FCL 2 amendment 3). The information in your email is almost correct, however I should clarify a couple of points. Since the of JAR-FCL 2 Amendment 6 and subsequent implementation of the EASA Aircrew Regulations, the IR(H) is no longer implicit in an ATPL(H), with the introduction of the ATPL(H) VFR only. This has had a beneficial consequence for pilots such as you. This means that the IR(H) and the ATPL(H) theory credits have been separated and each has its own validity period. These validity periods are set out in Part-FCL.025(c), which I have highlighted below in clarification:

FCL.025 Theoretical knowledge examinations for the issue of licences

(c) Validity period
(1) The successful completion of the theoretical knowledge examinations will be valid:
*************
(ii) for the issue of a commercial pilot licence or instrument rating (IR), for a period of 36 months;
(iii) the periods in (i) and (ii) shall be counted from the day when the pilot successfully completes the theoretical knowledge examination, in accordance with (b)(2).

(2) The completion of the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) theoretical knowledge examinations will remain valid for the issue of an ATPL for a period of 7 years from the last validity date of:
(i) an IR entered in the licence; or
(ii) in the case of helicopters, a helicopter’s type rating entered in that licence.


Therefore, while your IR(H) theory credits have expired, your ATPL(H) theory credits remain valid for 7 years from the most recent type rating on your licence. This would permit you to upgrade to an ATPL(H), conditional on satisfying all the ATPL(H) experience and testing requirements, however you would be restricted to VFR only.

Regards.
TTW

[paco]

Result!!

phil

[apb]

Glad to know that you got a positive solution in less than a week, I've been fighting with my CAA for three months now and I didn't get a solution yet to a very similar problem...maybe I should change mi CPL(H) to your country to get a solution

[paco]

You wouldn't be the only one....

Phil

[apb]

I know my case is not exactly the same as this but I'd like to write down it here because maybe there are someone in the same situation or similar that could help me.

I did my JAR CPL(H) in Spain, I started it in november 2009 under amendment 3 (the course was aproved by our CAA as a CPL(H) amendment 3 and I have a written certificate from the school with this information). In January 2010 started the amendment 6 in Spain and I did my CPL(H) theory exams in 2010, after my six months theory clases, and finished my CPL(H) course in 2011.

Four months ago I sent a letter to my CAA to get a written certificate, I want to have in paper that I have the ATPL (H) VFR because I am a CPL(H) amendment 3 so in my case is aplicable the JAR FCL 2.050. The answer was negative, they told me that I did my exams under amendment 6 so the JAR FCL 2.050 is not applicable to me.

I have sent another letter explaining that my CPL course is an amendment 3 course and I fulfill all the requirements, both theoretical and practical, for an amendment 3 course but the answer was negative again, they told me JAR FCL 2.050 is not applicable to me again.

I don't know what I could do, maybe if I change my license to another country it could be easier to resolve?, or my CAA is correct and the JAR FCL 2.050 is not applicabe to me due to I did my exams under the amendment 6?. If I don't get a positive answer to my problem I have to pass all the exams again (less two) to get the ATPL (H) VFR and this is a lot of money and time!

Sorry for my English is not my native language.

Best regards

[paco]

Did you not finish the exams under Amendment 3? If not, then they would appear to be correct.

Phil

[apb]

Here comes the problem Phil, I think I finished my exams under amendment 3 but they don't think like me.

One of the big changes, at least here in Spain, with the amendment 6 was the general navigation exam. Under amendment 3 the general navigation and radio navigation exams are together (two parts in the same exam and the result is an average between both) and under amendmet 6 the general navigation and radio navigation are separate exams for a CPL(H). I only did one exam like in the amendment 3' exams.

I have a certificate from my CAA with the results of my exams and the exams that I passed to get my CPL(H) if you are interested.

Regards.

[paco]

It is confusing when you say you took the exams again in 2010, or was that the first set?

If you did indeed take the exams for amendment 3, then they are wrong, but Spain didn't really get JAA compatible let alone EASA.

Sounds like it might be a good idea to change authorities. The vital bit would be the date on which you to9ok the exams and when they changed over to amendment 6.

Phil

[apb]

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I started my ICPL( Integrated) in november 2009 (under amendment 3) and after 6 theory months I took the exams, in june and september 2010. The amendment 6 started in Spain in january 2010 but my course and sillabus were approved under amendment 3 in 2009.

Regards.

[paco]

In that case, they would appear to be right.

phil

[apb]

Thanks a lot for your answer Phil, I'm not glad to hear It but seems I have to start all over again to get my ATPL(H).

Regards.

[paco]

At least you are exempt POF and VFR Comms

phil

[apb]

Phil, could you tell me how many exams you have to take for a CPL(H) amendment 3 and for a CPL(H) amendment 6?, I couldn't find it.

I have seen the JAR- FCL 2.470 was modified with the amendment 6 so for an ATPL(H)VFR you have to take 13 exams and for a CPL(H) you have to take 9 exams. I did 12 exams because general navigation and radio navigation was together as you can see in the Apendix 1 JAR-FCL 2.470 amendment 3.

I think that here is the key, if I can prove that I did amendment 3 exams they should give me te ATPL(H) VFR, or maybe if I was under the amendment 6 the exams taken by me are the same as you can see in the (a) JAR-FCL 2.470 amendment 6.

Regards.

[paco]

It was 9 for Amendment 3 and 13 for Amendment 6.

The regulations I posted above detail how they are transferred.

Phil

[Ready2Fly]

The 'funny' part of this ATPL(H) theory crediting is (or was), that -in germany- even those received a written confirmation of ATPL(H) theory credit from their local CAA (LBA) when the exams were taken pre JAR-FCL (in germany that was 01.05.2003).

I.e., eventhough they obviously did not meet the criteria of JAR-FCL 2.050 (b)(10) but rather 2.050 (b)(8), they were credited with ATPL(H) theory.

LBA reasoning: Pre JAR-FCL there was no distinction between CPL and ATPL exams. So: One fits all. Others call it grandfathering rights.

I wonder whether other countries did the same...