Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
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From reports the initial impact created a very loud noise inside the pub - loud enough to stop the band playing - as well as a partial ceiling collapse and I guess there was a bit of a stunned silence until somebody made the joke about the band bringing down the roof, after which they all just carried on as if nothing had happened until the roof fell in. Yet common sense would indicate that something pretty serious had happened to the building's structure, even if nobody would have imagined a helicopter crashing on it; perhaps a lightening strike or a roof beam giving way. It's a shame that nobody had the presence of mind to shout: "Everybody out - move - NOW!". It might just have reduced the human cost of this tragic incident.
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utter muppets
I have been following this forum for many years now. I know from personal experience there are some great knowledgable people on here. But about 80% of you are utter knobs. It took just over an hour for the first person on this thread to offer the first sign of humanity by offering condolences. But since then you have shown yourselves to be utterly disgusting. Yes most will be press fishing and they stick out. Most will be people wanting to offer there Microsoft flight sim experience. But remember this,as well as normal members of the public who have sadly died. A pilot with thousands of hours of experience has lost his life. Two police offices with vast aviation experience have also died. Friends and colleagues of those people who have access to this forum and really shouldn't put up with your rubbish. Have some god dam respect and if you want to slag off the crew do it in the confines of your lounge, pub or your own head. Wait for the truth from the AAIB report.
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My fondness for a regular close shave with Occam's razor makes it very hard for me to credit that three chaps autorotated healthily onto a roof and were cheerfully hopping out with a jolly tale to tell, only to suddenly and unanimously be killed by being the top layer in the collapse of a low ceiling. I suspect that dropping out of the sky was enough bad luck for one day...
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Budgie: who here would not offer condolences to family and friends? Who here would not care deeply about the humanity behind these events? However, this is a forum which, like it or not, caters to those who wish to speculate about the sequence of events and causes. Doing so does not imply any disrespect to the dead. Indeed, my recent post, the tone of which displeases you, is my own way of indicating that some of the speculation here is absurd. However, I did not consider it my place to estimate the proportion of people here who are 'knobs', nor to seek to police this forum according to my own preferences.
engines are two stage and not connected to MGB.
I can't find a report from survivors referring to the distinctive noise made by a jet engine when heard from close proximity (even when shutting down)
During a fairly recent US Based EMS Helicopter crash there were eye witness reports of "Sparks" being seen coming from the aircraft prior to its crashing and killing all aboard. it too was an EC aircraft.
As to what the cause of that crash i am not sure.
That an Eye Witness may report seeing sparks...is not unheard of and in/of itself cannot necessarily be given a lot of credence unless corroborated somehow.
Eye Witness reports are quite susceptible to being inaccurate for any number of reasons.
Last edited by SASless; 1st Dec 2013 at 22:24.
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SAS
Turbine engines in helicopters are gas generators. The expanding gases turn a free power turbine which is not connected to the engine. So if the MGB seizes it will not stall the engine.
will that suffice?
That statement needs expounding upon I do believe.....because if they are not connected to the MGB....what turns the Rotor Blades in powered flight?
will that suffice?
Last edited by chopjock; 1st Dec 2013 at 22:37.
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In addition to being free-power-turbines, the engines are connected to the gearbox by freewheel units which disengages when rotor speed exceeds engine speed (taking into account the reduction of gearbox(es) obviously).
Like going downhill on a push bike if you like, the pedals don't turn but the wheels do.
Like going downhill on a push bike if you like, the pedals don't turn but the wheels do.
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I have something to get off my chest about bereaved family, friends, condolences and PPruNe.
After such a terrible event we can all anticipate that family members will do their best to comfort and support one another, grateful for the support of friends, and of those professionally associated with the deceased or involved as emergency services.
Were they to come to PPruNe at this time, I'm sure they would be touched by any messages left by those who knew and admired those lost. But if they were to come here, which I suspect is not all that likely in most cases, they might well get a great deal less comfort from the condolences of uninvolved strangers than from informed, albeit speculative, analysis which might help them begin to make sense of what happened.
If, for instance, consensus emerged that what happened was likely through no pilot error, and was a crisis of short duration which probably ended in an instant and could probably not have ended any other way on the night: that may give them more tangible interim comfort than the formally expressed sympathy of innumerable strangers (despite that contributors here would indeed be inhuman not to be sympathetic). And it is in part with such emotions at heart that far-fetched speculation about near-survival followed by absurd bad luck feels ill-judged to me. However, the didactic assertion that all here should offer explicit condolence above all else: that feels similarly shallow.
After such a terrible event we can all anticipate that family members will do their best to comfort and support one another, grateful for the support of friends, and of those professionally associated with the deceased or involved as emergency services.
Were they to come to PPruNe at this time, I'm sure they would be touched by any messages left by those who knew and admired those lost. But if they were to come here, which I suspect is not all that likely in most cases, they might well get a great deal less comfort from the condolences of uninvolved strangers than from informed, albeit speculative, analysis which might help them begin to make sense of what happened.
If, for instance, consensus emerged that what happened was likely through no pilot error, and was a crisis of short duration which probably ended in an instant and could probably not have ended any other way on the night: that may give them more tangible interim comfort than the formally expressed sympathy of innumerable strangers (despite that contributors here would indeed be inhuman not to be sympathetic). And it is in part with such emotions at heart that far-fetched speculation about near-survival followed by absurd bad luck feels ill-judged to me. However, the didactic assertion that all here should offer explicit condolence above all else: that feels similarly shallow.
Lofty and Chop Jock.....so if the engine(s) are running, producing power, thus providing rotation to the Main Rotor Blades....what happens if the Rotor Blades contact some unmoving...substantial object? We would have to assume the Rotor Blades would slow down....thus be turning slower than the Pilot selected RPM...right?
After hitting that substantial object...what damage to the aircraft would occur?
Would the engines continue to run?
Would the engines, if still running, be trying to move the Rotor Blades, Rotor Head if no blades, Transmission if no Rotor Head?
After hitting that substantial object...what damage to the aircraft would occur?
Would the engines continue to run?
Would the engines, if still running, be trying to move the Rotor Blades, Rotor Head if no blades, Transmission if no Rotor Head?
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I have seen or "heard" hundreds of autorotations in piston helicopters at "my" aerodrome. If there was a failure of the fenestron, as looks likely, then the pilot would have had no control over the path of the descent in an autorotation. Yes?
It seems to me everything was against this competent experienced pilot.
It seems to me everything was against this competent experienced pilot.
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If there was a failure of the fenestron, as looks likely, then the pilot would have had no control over the path of the descent in an autorotation. Yes?
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It goes without saying that every single one of the professional pilots on this thread will feel empathy for the crew regardless of whether they specifically state it.
I walked around Glasgow in a daze yesterday, stood on a bridge looking in the direction of the flight and tried to think where I'd have aimed for at night, when faced with an emergency at low level. I then went and had a drink, on my own, in an unfamiliar pub, to toast the victims.
As pilots, there are some scenarios we luckily never face, others we deal with only rarely and some we need to frequently refresh ourselves about. Discussion on this forum oftentimes makes us realise that someone else's approach to a particular inflight issue might be more sensible than our own instinct. So we learn and adapt.
Budgie and yme, precisely how this offends you and impacts your lives enough to post in the bullying way you did is beyond me. Be offended if you like. But don't dare to state that technical discussion amongst pilots equals lack of respect.
I walked around Glasgow in a daze yesterday, stood on a bridge looking in the direction of the flight and tried to think where I'd have aimed for at night, when faced with an emergency at low level. I then went and had a drink, on my own, in an unfamiliar pub, to toast the victims.
As pilots, there are some scenarios we luckily never face, others we deal with only rarely and some we need to frequently refresh ourselves about. Discussion on this forum oftentimes makes us realise that someone else's approach to a particular inflight issue might be more sensible than our own instinct. So we learn and adapt.
Budgie and yme, precisely how this offends you and impacts your lives enough to post in the bullying way you did is beyond me. Be offended if you like. But don't dare to state that technical discussion amongst pilots equals lack of respect.
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What does LHIRF mean ?
Lightning High Intensity Radiated Field
This really left me none the wiser but this document shed some light on the potential problem:
http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...20feb%2007.pdf
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utter muppets
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I have been following this forum for many years now. I know from personal experience there are some great knowledgable people on here. But about 80% of you are utter knobs. It took just over an hour for the first person on this thread to offer the first sign of humanity by offering condolences. But since then you have shown yourselves to be utterly disgusting. Yes most will be press fishing and they stick out. Most will be people wanting to offer there Microsoft flight sim experience. But remember this,as well as normal members of the public who have sadly died. A pilot with thousands of hours of experience has lost his life. Two police offices with vast aviation experience have also died. Friends and colleagues of those people who have access to this forum and really shouldn't put up with your rubbish. Have some god dam respect and if you want to slag off the crew do it in the confines of your lounge, pub or your own head. Wait for the truth from the AAIB report.
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I have been following this forum for many years now. I know from personal experience there are some great knowledgable people on here. But about 80% of you are utter knobs. It took just over an hour for the first person on this thread to offer the first sign of humanity by offering condolences. But since then you have shown yourselves to be utterly disgusting. Yes most will be press fishing and they stick out. Most will be people wanting to offer there Microsoft flight sim experience. But remember this,as well as normal members of the public who have sadly died. A pilot with thousands of hours of experience has lost his life. Two police offices with vast aviation experience have also died. Friends and colleagues of those people who have access to this forum and really shouldn't put up with your rubbish. Have some god dam respect and if you want to slag off the crew do it in the confines of your lounge, pub or your own head. Wait for the truth from the AAIB report.