Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub
Some of you arm chair, FSX heros, need to calm down and keep your non expert theory's to yourself. People have died. This is not a game and in time there familys may read this thread.
Leave the experts to find out and report what happened.
Leave the experts to find out and report what happened.
You caught me as I was editing the post.....and you are exactly correct.
The Fire Fighters are carrying a partial Main Rotor Blade....behind them is the Stablizer which is bent downwards.....the Drive Shaft is on top of the Boom. The exposed blades of the Fenstron are visible at the Top of the Ladder and show little rotational damage if any.
The Fire Fighters are carrying a partial Main Rotor Blade....behind them is the Stablizer which is bent downwards.....the Drive Shaft is on top of the Boom. The exposed blades of the Fenstron are visible at the Top of the Ladder and show little rotational damage if any.
That's the end (recently sawn through, by the look of it) of a Main Rotor Blade, Heligog. There are plenty of photos of AO pre-accident which would show you what its stabilisers look like, and what colour they are.
Indeed you can see 'em in the other photo posted by my learned friend SASless.
Indeed you can see 'em in the other photo posted by my learned friend SASless.
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Fortyodd2
Generally to others not in the know and especially the desparate media hounds - by the time the EC135 runs out of fuel, over the previous 30 minutes there would be 3 amber warning lights, 2 red warning lights with audio, 2 loudly complaining police air observers and number 2 engine will quit about 2 minutes before number 1 - that's the way the system is designed.
Exactly, and it would still be capable of autorotation.
The fly in the ointment in this whole thing is the Sun's editor's statement saying it came down with blades not turning and falling like a stone, in which case I'd have expected 3 tonnes of 135 to have gone straight through the roof in one go.
But an auto followed by a 7-8ft drop into a pub, I expected the crew to be walking wounded at worst.
Very sad all round. Hopefully we'll get more clues as the aircraft is removed from the building, hopefully today or tomorrow.
Generally to others not in the know and especially the desparate media hounds - by the time the EC135 runs out of fuel, over the previous 30 minutes there would be 3 amber warning lights, 2 red warning lights with audio, 2 loudly complaining police air observers and number 2 engine will quit about 2 minutes before number 1 - that's the way the system is designed.
Exactly, and it would still be capable of autorotation.
The fly in the ointment in this whole thing is the Sun's editor's statement saying it came down with blades not turning and falling like a stone, in which case I'd have expected 3 tonnes of 135 to have gone straight through the roof in one go.
But an auto followed by a 7-8ft drop into a pub, I expected the crew to be walking wounded at worst.
Very sad all round. Hopefully we'll get more clues as the aircraft is removed from the building, hopefully today or tomorrow.
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Unfortunately the initial picture showed the Stabilisers, which were commented on, then an additional picture was added showing two Firemen carrying a MRB, and it was assumed posters were referring to the first picture and there the confusion lays 
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"If the manufacturers or operators thought it likely that there was a catastrophic technical failure, I would have thought it obvious that they would have grounded the fleet pending some sort of inspection."
maybe as you stand in repute of TC's comment you would like to respond? Whitehead06
maybe as you stand in repute of TC's comment you would like to respond? Whitehead06
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White
"If the manufacturers or operators thought it likely that there was a catastrophic technical failure, I would have thought it obvious that they would have grounded the fleet pending some sort of inspection."
Indeed Sir, it is you that has started the hares to run...
Indeed Sir, it is you that has started the hares to run...
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Interesting. They are apparently dismantling the aircraft at the scene, according to the DM.
Fenestron now showing much more damage than from the photo above.
'Every time I shut my eyes I see that wee man': Woman who was inside packed Glasgow pub when police helicopter crashed into roof can't shake horror of seeing dead man carried from carnage | Mail Online
Fenestron now showing much more damage than from the photo above.
'Every time I shut my eyes I see that wee man': Woman who was inside packed Glasgow pub when police helicopter crashed into roof can't shake horror of seeing dead man carried from carnage | Mail Online
But an auto followed by a 7-8ft drop into a pub, I expected the crew to be walking wounded at worst.
The mostly undamaged rotor blades mean the rotor was stopped after some form of auto-rotation. A stopped rotor in the air, even at 75feet, would mean a 2 tons object crashing straight through the wooden ceiling (and ground floor) with explosive force. No time for the band making jokes 'that they brought the ceiling down' (if witness reports are reliable).
High AoA in the last moments of the flare, could explain the partially separated fenestron tail section, if it hit a solid structure first, leaving the rest of the helicopter in a pretty undamaged state, until the second and lethal stage of this drama unfolded. I think they ran out of luck twice.
A/C heat exchanger
DIBO said
There is a bashed up looking AC heat exchanger on the roof that seems to fit that nicely. Photo in post 216.
High AoA in the last moments of the flare, could explain the partially separated fenestron tail section, if it hit a solid structure first
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Most Probable Causes
HelloĦĦ
I agree with other posts about low rotor blade damage, so It can be:
Operating at the altitudes and airspeeds shown within the cross-hatched or shaded areas of the Height/Velocity diagram may not allow enough time for the critical transition from powered flight to autorotation.
Police Ops usually are hovering or at low speed.
I agree with other posts about low rotor blade damage, so It can be:
Operating at the altitudes and airspeeds shown within the cross-hatched or shaded areas of the Height/Velocity diagram may not allow enough time for the critical transition from powered flight to autorotation.
Police Ops usually are hovering or at low speed.
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Someone previously mentioned the roof being in darkness. Pity I can't find any previous shots of the Clutha at night, but if he was expecting to land on what he thought was a flat bit of ground 10ft lower down, the flare probably came a bit late (if at all) before the hard impact with the roof.
It's the Sun editor's version of falling like a stone with rotors not turning that's got me, and he seems to be the only witness.
It's the Sun editor's version of falling like a stone with rotors not turning that's got me, and he seems to be the only witness.
I've just read this input on an angling site that I visit.
Is this statement kosher?
All pilots are taught how to autorotate a helicopter in the event of an engine failure, this still enables the pilot to control the descent and pitch/yaw of the aircraft. Most helicopters have a centrifugal clutch fitted which will only engage the rotate if the clutch is spinning fast enough, this will also disengage in the event of an engine failure which allows the rotors to spin freely. I imagine that in this unfortunate case the clutch either failed to disengage or the gearbox was so badly damaged that debris stopped the rotatation.
Another possibility is that the rotor brake was on, or the pilot was pulling back on the stick which will slow the rotors.
Is this statement kosher?
All pilots are taught how to autorotate a helicopter in the event of an engine failure, this still enables the pilot to control the descent and pitch/yaw of the aircraft. Most helicopters have a centrifugal clutch fitted which will only engage the rotate if the clutch is spinning fast enough, this will also disengage in the event of an engine failure which allows the rotors to spin freely. I imagine that in this unfortunate case the clutch either failed to disengage or the gearbox was so badly damaged that debris stopped the rotatation.
Another possibility is that the rotor brake was on, or the pilot was pulling back on the stick which will slow the rotors.