Police helicopter crashes onto Glasgow pub

[RVDT]

EASA AD No.: 2013-0289-E

dtd: 06 December 2013

in response to:

ASB EC135-53A-029 FUSELAGE -- Rear Structure

Visual inspection of ring frame X9227 (with blind rivet with rounded head
design) between rear structure tube and Fenestron housing for cracks

dtd: 19 November 2013

NOTE - Ring frames with frame reinforcement L535H2100201 are not affected.

Frame reinforcement L535H2100201 was fitted to this aircraft as I have personally installed 3 of them.

The ring frame did NOT fail from my view of the photographs in the public domain.

The fenestron fin and structure failed due to hitting an A/C unit.

Therefore - NOT APPLICABLE

Next.

FYI -

Part 61 ATPL (H) ~ 8000 RW 15 Types - 500 on EC135. ECD DON trained and recurrent plus Emergency Procedures and Maintenance Flight Procedures on EC135.

Part 66 LAME - licensed on type (8 years) ECD DON Trained on EC135.

[SilsoeSid]

Cows getting bigger

SS, if you're in the mood to dismiss various hypothesis, how about a Kegworth? In other words, No 1 starts failing/fails, No 2 is shut down.

Fine with me Cgb, reference my last post, the AAIB report link would have been nice.
Air Accidents Investigation: 4/1990 G-OBME


With that theory, I would say unlikely.

Kegworth

He (the commander) later stated that he looked at the engine instruments but did not gain from them any clear indication of the problem

135 in a nutshell;

#1 starts failing/fails.
In the 135, an engine problem is indicated by multiple captions on one side or other of the CAD screen, clearly indicating which engine has the problem, as does the VEMD and T's&P's screen. The FLI needles have I & II on them to identify a good or bad engine and the VEMD screen will show low N1,Tq & TOT values on the left (#1) or right (#2) side of the screen. Fire buttons are well separated and indicated.

A single engine shutdown emergency does not by any means create a frantic cockpit. The shutdown would be completed unhurriedly, with clear indications of which engine has the problem and there would be crew confirmation of which engine was being shut down. During that shutdown phase, on selecting idle, there would be a pause, 2, 3, to confirm correct engine was selected, before finally selecting the off position.

Shutting down the wrong engine, again of course is not impossible, but very highly unlikely.

[Gemini Twin]

You are right SAS, do you remember the AS350 in Auckland that hit a cable
and came down in a heap almost throwing the seat and pilot out. When it had stopped the Arriel was "screaming" for sometime before it was shut down.

[Camper Van Basten]

Sorry if I've missed this info from earlier in these pages, but does the 135 have 'Crash handles' like several of the other EC types?

[the_flying_cop]

Im all in favour of a good discussion about the mechanical side of things, and what may have failed/contributed to the crash, but personally, i think it is bad form for people to discuss aspects of pilot error as the captain is not here to defend himself, and any theories are purely SPECULATION.

It is even more bad taste considering that his relatives and friends could be following this thread. Have a little decency please.

[airpolice]

The Flying Cop,


Hear Hear.

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger

SS, if you're in the mood to dismiss various hypothesis, how about a Kegworth? In other words, No 1 starts failing/fails, No 2 is shut down.

I know of at least one crew that did that: made a mistake on an engine malfunction, heading back to safe landing site, and before they got it all done, got the wrong engine lever moved back. It didn't end well.

[Cows getting bigger]

If the consensus is that we should talk about all possibilities including night flying ducks, fuel starvation, catastrophic failure etc but we steer clear of a very real possibility, that being Human Factors (not 'pilot error', as that implies a judgement is already being made upon the actions of a pilot) then I suggest we halt the whole discussion until some facts are released.

[SilsoeSid]

In the dark there is nothing to identify the different donkey throttles, you go from memory.
The twisting motion as has been said on here is a bit different too, especially as it only winds off to idle unless you press the other button on the collective which isn't as easy as one might think having practiced it.

Apart from #1 being at the top half of the collective with long grooves and #2 being the rear half of the collective with nobbly bits. But I only know that, just like a lot of other things, from memory.

The pressing of the twist grip buttons to shut off the engines isn't too difficult in normal circumstances, which would be to shut down the engine(s) after landing having had a fadec failure. The process of shutting down the engines by using the twist grips is not done in flight, and would only be difficult if you were also trying to fly the ac during an emergency where you have decided, for whatever reason, you need to do it.

[SilsoeSid]

Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger
SS, if you're in the mood to dismiss various hypothesis, how about a Kegworth? In other words, No 1 starts failing/fails, No 2 is shut down.

Lonewolf_50;
I know of at least one crew that did that: made a mistake on an engine malfunction, heading back to safe landing site, and before they got it all done, got the wrong engine lever moved back. It didn't end well.

Lonewolf, The discussion is EC135, am I right in thinking that as you refer to engine levers, your example isn't based on an EC135?

[SilsoeSid]

Cabby

I noted a comment in the press from a senior officer in West Mids stating that his 135 a/c had been checked out since the crash and they were happy to continue flying. Anyone know what was checked out?

The West Midlands don't have their own helicopter!

[Nige321]

From the BBC

Police helicopter's movements

20:47 - helicopter flies over Gorbals area of Glasgow
21:20 - it flies east to Dalkeith in Midlothian
22:20 - helicopter is near Shettleston in Glasgow, having returned to the city via Bothwell and Bargeddie
The final sightings are over streets close to the Clutha bar

[SilsoeSid]

Glasgow pub tragedy prompts West Midlands helicopter checks « Express & Star

Glasgow pub tragedy prompts West Midlands helicopter checks

Dec 4th 2014
Police and ambulance helicopters in the West Midlands have been checked over by safety experts following the Glasgow tragedy that claimed nine lives.

Fleets have undergone rigorous safety checks, with the force’s Chief Constable Chris Sims saying: “Given we operate helicopters of a very similar design and style, there were concerted efforts from the National Police Air Service to check safety.

The messages that came back were reassurances that our helicopters are operating to a standard and continue to operate safely.”

The checks were made after a Scottish police aircraft crashed into the Clutha bar on Friday night. “They were tragic events in Glasgow and I’ve written to express our condolences,” added Mr Sims. “I cannot think of another instance when an organisation has lost its own people and are dealing with a tragedy they were very much involved in.

“I think they have dealt with it well.”

Mr Sims made the remarks during a meeting of the West Midlands Strategic Policing and Crime Board yesterday, which began with a period of respectful silence for the victims of the Glasgow tragedy.

Brendan Connor, chairman for the Midlands Air Ambulance charity, added: “We have three similar 315 helicopters and continue to operate them safely.”

Dear Mr Sims ........

[choppereng]

West Mids DO have their own aircraft....

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

SilsoeSid, I think you need some time out. Your posts are not making much sense buddy.

[Thomas coupling]

Breathe deeply Silsoe - you're in runaway up again

I notice there are still people out there who continue to believe in the tail rotor fault and its associated effects w.r.t. flight paths...........

IF the direction of this investigation is allegedly veering towards fuel problems, I am already struggling to understand how even a double flame out can render the rotors stationary within a matter of seconds - not even minutes??? The pilot would have had to have retained considerable pitch for this to happen -and that, simply is not going to happen - it's ingrained in a pilots DNA to lower the lever when the donk(s) stops.

[4listair]

Witness statements from outside Clutha

I think it is worth aggregating some witness statements from those who had a chance to see or hear the events unfolding and are doing their best to describe the last moments:

Eyewitnesses give accounts of Glasgow pub police helicopter crash | Glasgow & West | News | STV

Eyewitness John Bremner said he was in Trongate when he saw the helicopter drop like a 10p piece. He said: Literally in seconds it just stopped in mid-air and just fell. It dropped in the most eerie silence followed by a bang. Not even a bang, more a rumble. It wasn't that high, maybe 100ft above the Holiday Inn. It was staying there. It wasn't hovering, just there, not purposely. It dropped instantly. Like something out of a disaster movie. The lights were still on. That made it stand out. They were still on as it dropped. It just dropped. Like dropping a 10p. Followed by a rumble.

Mark Weatherall, who was in the area at the time of the crash, said: Me and my girlfriend saw it happening from about 30 seconds to a minute before it happened. We were walking through the car park at the back end of St Enoch's at the other side of Slaters. We could see a bright light shining down and saw it was a helicopter, it didn't take long to realise it was rapidly decreasing in altitude before my girlfriend said it was flying really low. Next thing we heard something pop in the helicopter which I assume was the engine or something mechanical before the helicopter just dropped out of the sky disappearing behind the building looking over Clutha. We heard a bang and saw people running towards the scene and when we got round there was a large group outside with casualties being brought out of the pub and people helping them to get out.

@crushtina 10:29 PM - 29 Nov 13

Horrible plane descending sound, big crash, people screaming and shouting on each other, sirens and megaphones at St Enoch's square. Anyone?

Rutherglen worker speaks of Clutha horror - Daily Record

Derek had his window down and no music in the car. I came up for the Holiday Inn and I remember thinking I hope the lights don’t change or I’ll be stuck here for ages, but the lights did. I was sitting looking straight at the Clutha at the point of impact. “There was no sound, it was so quiet. When the helicopter hit there were no lights either. On impact...it was like a bellow of dust that flew out the door. There was a slight echo-y sound and the dust came out the front door. I thought a chimney had collapsed.

Glasgow helicopter crash: 'They formed a human chain to pass out survivors' - Telegraph

Gordon Smart, a journalist, who was on the sixth floor of a multi-storey car park nearby. I looked above me – couldn’t work out where it was coming from. It got louder and louder. I spotted a helicopter falling out of the sky. The rotor blades were not spinning as the helicopter fell, said Mr Smart. The helicopter was turning in a strange position and dropping at a great speed. It seemed to be coming straight for the car park but changed direction and disappeared out of sight behind a block of flats

Meanwhile, Eddie Waltham, a retired fireman, was heading for the Clutha Vaults to meet a friend. I was only 50 metres away when I heard the explosion which stopped me in my tracks. When I looked up, there was a very obvious cloud of smoke and I could see it was coming from the pub. He ran towards the building. I had absolutely no idea it was a helicopter.

From their flat overlooking the Clutha, Iain and Victoria Simpson, looked on, first in shock, then in horror. We heard the big bang first of all and looked out, said Mrs Simpson.

Police killed in Glasgow helicopter crash had won bravery commendations | UK news | The Guardian

A witness told the Guardian he saw a shower of sparks fly out of the helicopter as if a firework had gone off. Craig Russell, 52, said he had been returning home from the Barras, a famous covered market near the crash site in the city's east end, soon before 10.25pm on Friday when he saw the Eurocopter EC135 T2 flying far lower than expected. It was making an odd noise as if the engine was misfiring, with the rotor blades sounding fine for several beats before an odd metallic grating noise could be heard, and that sequence of sounds continued, he said, as it flew. As Russell walked through Glasgow Cross, he said, he saw the helicopter flying westwards over the Saltmarket main road and railway bridges that run parallel to it, only a few hundred metres east of the Clutha Vaults. He added that it then flew low over a railway bridge: It was really low, as you looked up you could make out the silhouette as it passed and I said: 'Dear God, that's low, we could almost touch it'. It went over the arch at Osborne Street and then it was as if someone had fired a firework. There was a big flash of sparks. Alarmed by what he had witnessed, Russell, a volunteer with the Barras Trust charity, which runs the market, said he ran towards the King Street car parks just north of the Clutha Vaults because he suspected the helicopter might have been trying to land there. Instead, he saw people outside a nearby pub deep in conversation as if nothing had happened. By then, he was unable to see or hear the aircraft, so, reassured, he assumed it had continued flying and went home to his flat nearby. About 30 minutes later, his sister phoned him to tell him a helicopter had crashed on to the Clutha's roof.

[Ornis]

RVDT#721 has explained the fenestron fin and structure broke when it hit the air conditioning unit and the ring frame AD did not apply - it had been reinforced. Fair enough.

Nevertheless, the unusual noises heard by several people may have been associated with the tail rotor. (I find it hard to believe this aircraft crashed because the engines stopped.)

A friend of mine died doing aerobatics after a screwdriver was left in the fuselage -- it jammed controls in the tail -- so I can understand engineers getting defensive when something goes wrong.

[AnFI]

Screw driver

That's strange - a friend of mine didn't die when a scrrew driver jammed the controls and he crashed heavily - funny old world.

Of course if this had been a 'single' it probably would not have happened

[Winch-control]

Assuming no catastrophic failure, which may be assumed by no grounding of the a/c type.

What was sent from the a/c to base such that they feel secure in that no action needs to be taken with regard the type?

Did the guys in the back have the time to relate the pilots thoughts to their control?