UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4
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IMHO, it's the lack of money that's at the very heart of this.
The dream of a national joined up service, was a good one, just that when forces were awash with cheap Home Office money the CCs were never going to give up any part of their little empires (and more than a few saw co-operation as a sign of weakness), so the dream would remain just that.
Once the money stopped flowing, the 'dream' became easy to push through as the CCs could then blame others for what has ensued.
Those still toiling at the sharp end each night are between a rock and a hard place, spread so thin, it's no wonder big gaps in capability happen, and then we have people who still think police aircraft have nothing better to do than just launch after midnight on a whim for the fun of making noise!
Here's my thanks on record for those that are still doing it, despite the circumstances.
The dream of a national joined up service, was a good one, just that when forces were awash with cheap Home Office money the CCs were never going to give up any part of their little empires (and more than a few saw co-operation as a sign of weakness), so the dream would remain just that.
Once the money stopped flowing, the 'dream' became easy to push through as the CCs could then blame others for what has ensued.
Those still toiling at the sharp end each night are between a rock and a hard place, spread so thin, it's no wonder big gaps in capability happen, and then we have people who still think police aircraft have nothing better to do than just launch after midnight on a whim for the fun of making noise!
Here's my thanks on record for those that are still doing it, despite the circumstances.
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Met "getting rid of 145's"
CABBY.
The Met aren't getting rid of it's 145's. NPAS is taking them over and THEY are getting rid of them.
The Met spent years researching and procuring these machines for a reason. That reason is now defunct and money has taken over.
FCL
The Met aren't getting rid of it's 145's. NPAS is taking them over and THEY are getting rid of them.
The Met spent years researching and procuring these machines for a reason. That reason is now defunct and money has taken over.
FCL
Last edited by Flarechecklevel; 14th Jul 2014 at 15:57. Reason: Fat Fingers ...
Base A flies x hours per year in an aircraft that costs y per hour.
Base B flies x+ hours per year in an aircraft that costs y+ per hour.
Option 1. Do nothing. Costs remain due to Base B flying rate.
Option 2. Close Base B. Unacceptable for operational and public perception reasons.
Option 3. Swap the aircraft around. Base B. Retains flying rate at a reduced cost, Base A retains flying rate at a higher but not as high cost. Equation now reads.....
Base A flies x hours per year in an aircraft that costs y+ per hour.
Base B flies x+ hours per year in an aircraft that costs y per hour.
It's called the laws of compensating reduction.
Simples
Base B flies x+ hours per year in an aircraft that costs y+ per hour.
Option 1. Do nothing. Costs remain due to Base B flying rate.
Option 2. Close Base B. Unacceptable for operational and public perception reasons.
Option 3. Swap the aircraft around. Base B. Retains flying rate at a reduced cost, Base A retains flying rate at a higher but not as high cost. Equation now reads.....
Base A flies x hours per year in an aircraft that costs y+ per hour.
Base B flies x+ hours per year in an aircraft that costs y per hour.
It's called the laws of compensating reduction.
Simples
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Tigerfish,
your recent posts are inaccurate and bordering on insulting to the hardworking TFO's and pilots working within NPAS.
Your implying we don't have an effect on crime and are incapable of catching criminals.
You are implying the TFO's are not trained properly and are incapable of getting the best from the aircraft.
Your implying we don't sit listening to the radios and scanning the logs looking for jobs and running out to the aircraft and the earliest opportunity.
Your implying that when my friends and colleagues are in trouble I can't be trusted to get to them as soon as possible to help them and make a difference.
You seem to think that we are incapable of providing the courts with photographic evidence when required yet the cameras we use are more capable than ever and if needs be the officer can have a digital image sent to them within minutes of landing or in the near future emailed directly from the aircraft.
In your day it was wet film!
You say that since NPAS the number of requests we get has plummeted but I've seen no evidence of this in the area I work. In fact the area as a whole gets a better service than ever.
Do you really think you cured ram raiding and joy riding?
I think it's more to do with concrete bollards and the fact you can't start a modern car with a screwdriver but hey what do I know I'm only a TFO!
I understand it's the job of a retired officer to swing the lamp and I'm sure I will get there one day but for now please think a bit harder before putting down the people you used to work alongside who are doing their best for the people they serve.
T F O
your recent posts are inaccurate and bordering on insulting to the hardworking TFO's and pilots working within NPAS.
Your implying we don't have an effect on crime and are incapable of catching criminals.
You are implying the TFO's are not trained properly and are incapable of getting the best from the aircraft.
Your implying we don't sit listening to the radios and scanning the logs looking for jobs and running out to the aircraft and the earliest opportunity.
Your implying that when my friends and colleagues are in trouble I can't be trusted to get to them as soon as possible to help them and make a difference.
You seem to think that we are incapable of providing the courts with photographic evidence when required yet the cameras we use are more capable than ever and if needs be the officer can have a digital image sent to them within minutes of landing or in the near future emailed directly from the aircraft.
In your day it was wet film!
You say that since NPAS the number of requests we get has plummeted but I've seen no evidence of this in the area I work. In fact the area as a whole gets a better service than ever.
Do you really think you cured ram raiding and joy riding?
I think it's more to do with concrete bollards and the fact you can't start a modern car with a screwdriver but hey what do I know I'm only a TFO!
I understand it's the job of a retired officer to swing the lamp and I'm sure I will get there one day but for now please think a bit harder before putting down the people you used to work alongside who are doing their best for the people they serve.
T F O
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thread Starter
I think it's more to do with concrete bollards and the fact you can't start a modern car with a screwdriver but hey what do I know I'm only a TFO!
I have one of them thar modern cars and because of the rise in thefts of so called 'modern ignition system'd unstealable without the keys vehicles', I am now the proud owner of a brand new crooklock that is virtually the same, apart from a Gucci flashing LED, that I had for on my Honda civic back in the 80's.
It's a bit if a wake up call and an eye opener when you're chasing 'your car' that has been taken without keys
But what do I know, I'm only a pylut
Sloppy - You missed Option 4, which is: Do Option 2 anyway and see how long you can get away with it for.
T F O - The contraction of you are is you're, the apostrophe in TFO's is only required if you are indicating possession by the TFO. Hope that helps.
T F O - The contraction of you are is you're, the apostrophe in TFO's is only required if you are indicating possession by the TFO. Hope that helps.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thread Starter
... the apostrophe in TFO's is only required if you are indicating possession by the TFO.
'The TFO has had a busy day today', can be written as; 'The TFO's had a busy day today'. The apostrophe is showing ommission.
Written without the apostrophe, 'The TFOs had a busy day today', indicates that many TFOs have had a busy day today.
I think that's correct, however this pylut has had a busy evening so far
You're right, Sid; your meaning may not be entirely clear but you'd be spot on.
To say: "the TFO's are not trained", though, would be incorrect, because you wouldn't be trying to say: "the TFO has are not trained" or even "the TFO is are not trained".
To say: "the TFO's are not trained", though, would be incorrect, because you wouldn't be trying to say: "the TFO has are not trained" or even "the TFO is are not trained".
TFO,
You miss my point entirely. I have no doubt that you work very hard indeed and do have all the skills and abilities that we honed in the 80's and 90's.
I am not that far out of date because was still involved as late as 2011 in ensuring that you got the best equipement that we could devise.
But the fact is that you are too thinly spread. You have to travel too far too often to be truly effective.
It was our mantra that to secure the services of your local Air Operations unit should be no more difficult than calling for the dog or for scenes of crime.
Dont ever accuse me of not fighting for all my worth for the skills and reputation of the Police air Observer. Note I said "Police" for I suspect you might not be!
In the meantime I will leave it to others who know me to sit in judgement!
TF
You miss my point entirely. I have no doubt that you work very hard indeed and do have all the skills and abilities that we honed in the 80's and 90's.
I am not that far out of date because was still involved as late as 2011 in ensuring that you got the best equipement that we could devise.
But the fact is that you are too thinly spread. You have to travel too far too often to be truly effective.
It was our mantra that to secure the services of your local Air Operations unit should be no more difficult than calling for the dog or for scenes of crime.
Dont ever accuse me of not fighting for all my worth for the skills and reputation of the Police air Observer. Note I said "Police" for I suspect you might not be!
In the meantime I will leave it to others who know me to sit in judgement!
TF
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thread Starter
JAFO, isn't it clear? The apostrophe can indicate possesion or ommission but with a noun cannot accompany a plural.
Possesion, The TFO's rubbish - Rubbish belonging to the TFO.
Ommission, The TFO's rubbish - The TFO is rubbish.
Plural, The TFOs rubbish - Collective rubbish belonging to many TFOs.
You are correct in your last post, however you are wrong by previously saying, "the apostrophe in TFO's is only required if you are indicating possession by the TFO".
(all of our TFOs are trained, as are all of our TFOs' pyluts
)
Possesion, The TFO's rubbish - Rubbish belonging to the TFO.
Ommission, The TFO's rubbish - The TFO is rubbish.
Plural, The TFOs rubbish - Collective rubbish belonging to many TFOs.
You are correct in your last post, however you are wrong by previously saying, "the apostrophe in TFO's is only required if you are indicating possession by the TFO".
(all of our TFOs are trained, as are all of our TFOs' pyluts
)
Sid - I fear we may have been sidetracked a little here but I meant that your original 'The TFO has had a busy day today' is the preferred option to the equally correct 'The TFO's had a busy day today'.
I understand how to use an apostrophe and apologise for not including all possible uses of the apostrophe in a post on an internet forum.
Your plural is incorrect, it would be the TFOs' rubbish; your example is meaningless.
You see the pilots' mirror would mean the mirror belonging to two or more pilots; the pilot's mirror would mean the mirror belonging to just one pilot; and the pilot's able to pick an argument with a mirror would mean someone was talking about you.
You, of course, also forgot contraction as a place where an apostrophe may be used.
You may like to know that it is possession, not possesion; and it is omission, not ommission.
I understand how to use an apostrophe and apologise for not including all possible uses of the apostrophe in a post on an internet forum.
Your plural is incorrect, it would be the TFOs' rubbish; your example is meaningless.
You see the pilots' mirror would mean the mirror belonging to two or more pilots; the pilot's mirror would mean the mirror belonging to just one pilot; and the pilot's able to pick an argument with a mirror would mean someone was talking about you.
You, of course, also forgot contraction as a place where an apostrophe may be used.
You may like to know that it is possession, not possesion; and it is omission, not ommission.
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NPAS disruption
I see NPAS are now re painting the GMP Heli, from the bumble bee yellow & black to standard Police scheme....we also have the ludicrous situation of Regional Police machines operating outside their area, eg SURY in Devon, DCPB in Glos & two of the Met 145's to be relocated outside Greater London& replaced by 'Fleet' 135's.....why don't they re-register the whole fleet ? G-NPAA-Z, the flagship could be G-NPAS, eee by gum it's got to be the West Yorkshire machine !
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thread Starter
Thanks for that JAFO, I'm sure we are all now much more enlightened and thanks for highlighting the spool chucking issue.
You may like to know that it is possible and not possilble
You may like to know that it is possible and not possilble
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Thread Starter
Re-register the whole fleet ?
It costs £150 to reserve a registration for a period of 6 months.
Registration Forms and Fees | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety
Until the process of registrering the NPAS ac begins, this will cost £3,750 every 6 months to prevent someone getting in there first. Then there's the charge per airframe of an out of sequence registration of £300, another £45,000. No doubt the same day service will be used so there's another £2,625.
Peanuts, just cut 25 flying hours somewhere, put it down to initial costs in the set up budget and Bob is the brother of one of your parents
Registration Forms and Fees | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety
Until the process of registrering the NPAS ac begins, this will cost £3,750 every 6 months to prevent someone getting in there first. Then there's the charge per airframe of an out of sequence registration of £300, another £45,000. No doubt the same day service will be used so there's another £2,625.
Peanuts, just cut 25 flying hours somewhere, put it down to initial costs in the set up budget and Bob is the brother of one of your parents
