UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4
And, what you hear is just about right.
Here's another. GMP used to have a fixed wing unit flying out of Manchester Airport. NPAS closed that, then decided to do a fixed wing trial, based down at Gloucester Staverton(I think). They then discovered that the allowances/accommodation costs for the bobbies involved in the trial were becoming a bit expensive. So they moved the trial...to Manchester Airport.
Here's another. GMP used to have a fixed wing unit flying out of Manchester Airport. NPAS closed that, then decided to do a fixed wing trial, based down at Gloucester Staverton(I think). They then discovered that the allowances/accommodation costs for the bobbies involved in the trial were becoming a bit expensive. So they moved the trial...to Manchester Airport.
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I heard that the money saved by stopping overtime pay, resulting in single crewing becoming a regular occurrence (thereby reducing efficiency), and the public holiday manning reductions (reducing the number of ac available), would cover the fixed wing trial 'admin' costs 
I also heard, from someone close to the home counties, that something wasn't quite right on the NPAS webpage National Police Air Service (NPAS) | West Yorkshire Police
I also heard, from someone close to the home counties, that something wasn't quite right on the NPAS webpage National Police Air Service (NPAS) | West Yorkshire Police
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MG - I thought the FW trial was flying out of Benson a few weeks ago, although also heard a rumour it was running back to Manchester at the end of a shift, which didn't seem to make sense. However, if your understanding is correct, it ties in - but still seems a funny way to run a trial when the goal posts are moved within weeks of starting.
Whilst it doesn't really matter where it flies from, if it does come down to crew cost saving, it would seem someone may not have done their homework in the first place . . . nothing that hasn't seen before! At least, having realised the error, something's actually been done about it in sensible time - shame reaction times aren't so fast in other areas.
Not surprisingly, it's unlikely anyone from the organisation will be able to confirm any of this, since communications are as first class as ever, I gather!
Vortex & SS - I've heard similar noises, although don't quite follow the relevance of your link, SS?
Whilst it doesn't really matter where it flies from, if it does come down to crew cost saving, it would seem someone may not have done their homework in the first place . . . nothing that hasn't seen before!
At least, having realised the error, something's actually been done about it in sensible time - shame reaction times aren't so fast in other areas.Not surprisingly, it's unlikely anyone from the organisation will be able to confirm any of this, since communications are as first class as ever, I gather!
Vortex & SS - I've heard similar noises, although don't quite follow the relevance of your link, SS?
Last edited by zorab64; 25th May 2014 at 06:35. Reason: Add further comment
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To be fair, it wasn't NPAS that closed down GMP's fixed wing, it was the GMP CC, at great inconvenience and cost to NPAS who had been relying on the GMP staff and PAOC to run the trial. What with that, the RAF's refusal to let them work autonomously at Benson (so limited ops at night and weekends), GMP suddenly cancelling the pilot contract and staff (understandably) looking for new jobs, and teething problems with the new aircraft / equipment, it eventually made sense to move it back to Manchester.
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Surely it negates the need for a trial if they have been used in police ops before?
"Now, look here, you just stop that conchie talk right now, Private."
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I wonder how many PCC's have looked at their collaboration agreements recently, poured themselves a coffee, then looked out the window.
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I also heard, from someone close to the home counties, that something wasn't quite right
on the NPAS webpage National Police Air Service (NPAS) | West Yorkshire Police
on the NPAS webpage National Police Air Service (NPAS) | West Yorkshire Police
- NPAS will provide a national, borderless service making use of the nearest aircraft
meaning that the police service's response will, in many cases, be enhanced over current provision. - NPAS will provide an air service to 98% of the population of England and Wales within 20 minutes.
- 25 NPAS aircraft will be placed at 23 strategic locations that provide the operational capability
to deliver an enhanced service to the public with an aircraft being available 24 hours a day. - 3 reserve aircraft will also be provided when aircraft are offline for maintenance to minimise reduction in service.
- NPAS will deliver a more cost effective service ..... blah, blah, blah.
- Under the National Collaboration Agreement for NPAS, blah, blah, blah .....
This ensures that NPAS is led and owned by the police service and delivers the operational benefits
and financial savings that have been presented to individual police authorities.
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I guess the 'get out' that isn't on the website page list would say something like this.
- NPAS will not have to prove to the public that any of the above points have ever been achieved.
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Phew, no more 4am trips to Milton Keynes and I'm looking forward to MPS discussing all those 'closest aircraft deployments' when a job comes in for a misper in Bath 
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NPAS accountable manager, chief superintendent Ian Whitehouse, said: “The tendering process was lengthy. This is not just about putting a new camera in an aircraft. It is an entire mission systems upgrade providing a slick and efficient service delivery at value to the taxpayer. I look forward to working with Bond to ensure NPAS is recognised as a world leader in police aviation.”
The work will be carried out at Bond’s facilities in Staverton, and through NPAS’ fleet management it will not impact on the coverage of police helicopters across the country. The upgrades will mean the full NPAS fleet of 22 helicopters operates with the very latest technology, putting criminals on the back foot.
The work will be carried out at Bond’s facilities in Staverton, and through NPAS’ fleet management it will not impact on the coverage of police helicopters across the country. The upgrades will mean the full NPAS fleet of 22 helicopters operates with the very latest technology, putting criminals on the back foot.
Did someone, while being interviewed, say something about imminent cuts that they shouldn't have
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Aircraft and helicopter near collide above Liverpool city centre - Liverpool Echo
A police helicopter and a plane were within seconds of colliding above Liverpool’s iconic waterfront.
The light aircraft and the helicopter came within just 100ft of each other above Albert Dock, a near-miss report today revealed.
Investigators said the risk of collision was “extremely high” – with the twin-engined Piper plane passing “right in front” of the helicopter.
The incident, in the early evening of November 10, 2013, took place just days before a police helicopter crashed into a pub in Glasgow, killing 10.
The ECHO understands the aircraft were on a collision course with each other directly above Merseyside Police’s headquarters, Chavasse Park and the Albert Dock complex.
The light aircraft and the helicopter came within just 100ft of each other above Albert Dock, a near-miss report today revealed.
Investigators said the risk of collision was “extremely high” – with the twin-engined Piper plane passing “right in front” of the helicopter.
The incident, in the early evening of November 10, 2013, took place just days before a police helicopter crashed into a pub in Glasgow, killing 10.
The ECHO understands the aircraft were on a collision course with each other directly above Merseyside Police’s headquarters, Chavasse Park and the Albert Dock complex.
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So, putting expensive new cameras in the aircraft will solve the problem of not being in the right place at the right time? It will certainly improve the thoroughness of the search once the offenders have left.
The very old saying goes like this....if they're there, we've got a good chance of finding them, if they're not there (because it's taken ages to get there and they've left) we'll NEVER find them.
As for the near miss scenario, whilst GA plans flight along straight lines from A to B, with a mindset that anything unplanned (in the way) can't be part of the equation and adds to the fuel bill, police helicopters hovering into wind at a search scenes are vulnerable. Can't count the number of times in CAVOK that GA fixed wing has been unwilling to deviate or unaware of a 3 ton blue and yellow fixed object filling their windscreen and I've had to take avoiding action by flying out of the search. When you think about it, there aren't many aircraft in the UK hovering at 1000-3000' in broad daylight that aren't actually involved in a serious task, I'm not saying other aircraft don't have a right to be there, just think about why that helicopter is there and go around.
The very old saying goes like this....if they're there, we've got a good chance of finding them, if they're not there (because it's taken ages to get there and they've left) we'll NEVER find them.
As for the near miss scenario, whilst GA plans flight along straight lines from A to B, with a mindset that anything unplanned (in the way) can't be part of the equation and adds to the fuel bill, police helicopters hovering into wind at a search scenes are vulnerable. Can't count the number of times in CAVOK that GA fixed wing has been unwilling to deviate or unaware of a 3 ton blue and yellow fixed object filling their windscreen and I've had to take avoiding action by flying out of the search. When you think about it, there aren't many aircraft in the UK hovering at 1000-3000' in broad daylight that aren't actually involved in a serious task, I'm not saying other aircraft don't have a right to be there, just think about why that helicopter is there and go around.
25 NPAS aircraft will be placed at 23 strategic locations that provide the operational capability.
Surely that is 22 operational + 3 reserves another use of language to suggest a larger presence
Surely that is 22 operational + 3 reserves another use of language to suggest a larger presence
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NPAS Frequently Asked Questions | West Yorkshire Police
10. Where are the new bases going to be located?
Under NPAS it is proposed that there will be twenty three air support bases at strategic locations that provide the operational capability to deliver an enhanced service. The NPAS base locations are:
Barton Moss, Greater Manchester
Benson, Oxfordshire
Birmingham Airport, Birmingham
Boreham, Essex
Bournemouth Airport, Bournemouth
Carr Gate, West Yorkshire
Durham Tees Valley Airport, Teeside
Exeter Airport, Exeter
Filton, Avon and Somerset
Halfpenny Green, Wolverhampton
Hawarden, North Wales
Honington, Suffolk
Humberside Airport, Humberside
Husbands Bosworth, Leicestershire
Lippitt’s Hill, Essex
Newcastle Airport, Newcastle
Pembrey, Dyfed-Powys
Redhill, Surrey
Rhuddlan, Denbighshire
Ripley, Derbyshire
Sheffield, South Yorkshire
St Athan, Glamorgan, South Wales
Warton, Lancashire
23 bases, 1 helicopter at each except for 2@ Boreham and 3@ Lippitt's, makes 26 operational. Add the 3 spare, and you have a total NPAS fleet of 29 helicopters
A further reduction of 7 helicopters makes a saving of .......
10. Where are the new bases going to be located?
Under NPAS it is proposed that there will be twenty three air support bases at strategic locations that provide the operational capability to deliver an enhanced service. The NPAS base locations are:
Barton Moss, Greater Manchester
Benson, Oxfordshire
Birmingham Airport, Birmingham
Boreham, Essex
Bournemouth Airport, Bournemouth
Carr Gate, West Yorkshire
Durham Tees Valley Airport, Teeside
Exeter Airport, Exeter
Filton, Avon and Somerset
Halfpenny Green, Wolverhampton
Hawarden, North Wales
Honington, Suffolk
Humberside Airport, Humberside
Husbands Bosworth, Leicestershire
Lippitt’s Hill, Essex
Newcastle Airport, Newcastle
Pembrey, Dyfed-Powys
Redhill, Surrey
Rhuddlan, Denbighshire
Ripley, Derbyshire
Sheffield, South Yorkshire
St Athan, Glamorgan, South Wales
Warton, Lancashire
23 bases, 1 helicopter at each except for 2@ Boreham and 3@ Lippitt's, makes 26 operational. Add the 3 spare, and you have a total NPAS fleet of 29 helicopters
A further reduction of 7 helicopters makes a saving of .......
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Art identifies the problem that so many identified 3 & 4 years ago, but which were ignored by those who "knew better", but who had never operated in, or with, Air Support at the sharp end.
Sid, I understand that the numbers maybe skewed a little by the two 135 spares not likely to be available for some while? From what I read, and as soon as the upgrade programme starts, one will be at Staverton for upgrade (total programme likely to run for well over a year?) and the other unavailable as a spare, if it's being used at Boreham.
It all rather knocks the "spare" aircraft plans into a cocked hat, and therefore the country coverage. Being a little less precious about county borders in the past, within a region, proved to be a much more mature, flexible & easier to manage option, even if it was unlikely to have remained financially viable in its entirety.
Sid, I understand that the numbers maybe skewed a little by the two 135 spares not likely to be available for some while? From what I read, and as soon as the upgrade programme starts, one will be at Staverton for upgrade (total programme likely to run for well over a year?) and the other unavailable as a spare, if it's being used at Boreham.
It all rather knocks the "spare" aircraft plans into a cocked hat, and therefore the country coverage. Being a little less precious about county borders in the past, within a region, proved to be a much more mature, flexible & easier to manage option, even if it was unlikely to have remained financially viable in its entirety.
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Does this mean that Sid's getting his iPad at last too ? 
Those Monitors must be very light compared to the Skyquest ones
Where'd they hide the Nitesun Controller ?
Nail
Those Monitors must be very light compared to the Skyquest ones
Where'd they hide the Nitesun Controller ?
Nail