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UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4

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UK NPAS discussion thread: Mk 4

Old 9th Nov 2014, 20:36
  #501 (permalink)  

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backtothebeat,
These vacancies are for civilian posts not police officers. Thus the low pay.
Please read the whole post. The part you quoted was questioning the sentence.

"2. The suggested starting pay for those selected is higher than one of the current TFO Training Officers with over 16 Years in the job - go figure."


As the starting salary for the post is £24,036 - £25,704; and a Constable after initial training is on £26,484, how can we 'go figure'?

Thus my riposte.
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Old 9th Nov 2014, 20:40
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Sorry Harry, nice video, but surely this is the only guide to Marshall-ing allowed on this thread;

College of Policing: Alex Marshall
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Old 10th Nov 2014, 19:05
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Just joined PPRuNe … I have just 'failed' THE interview … awaiting feedback! I'm told that there were about 20 got through to that stage.

The pay question may be answered by the fact that PCs don't get shift allowance, whereas Support Staff do. It could add 7%, 14%, or 20% onto the quoted salary depending on the number and extent of unsocial hours worked. so it is possible (though not a given) that a civvie TFO could be on more than some PCs … but not likely unless they work at a base offering 24 hr coverage.
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Old 10th Nov 2014, 20:52
  #504 (permalink)  

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Police helicopter called to Hertford, only to find they have the wrong man | Hertfordshire Mercury

Police helicopter called to Hertford, only to find they have the wrong man
By Vicky_Knill | Posted: November 05, 2014

A police helicopter was scrambled to help officers catch a man they believed to be a suspect in an assault case, only to find it was not him.

The Metropolitan Police Helicopter was called at 2.55pm today and flew to the Hertford area to assist police officers in keeping visual contact with the supposed GBH suspect.

However, when police caught up with the man and spoke to him, they discovered he was not who they thought he was.

The whole incident lasted a little over an hour and the helicopter was stood down at 4.05pm.
………………...



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Old 11th Nov 2014, 09:33
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Gerry
You say 20 got to interview...do you know if any passed????
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 13:07
  #506 (permalink)  
 
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Catchems,

I've no firm details about pass/fails. I BELIEVE that 2 vacancies MAY have been selected for, and that at least 2 others in addition to myself have 'not been successful on this occasion'. So how the final figures stack up … no idea. They are bound to face logistical problems if the vacancies aren't where the candidates live … that's something that they are going to have to figure out for any future recruitment.
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Old 11th Nov 2014, 21:17
  #507 (permalink)  

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20 got to interview!
That means a minimum of 20 candidates doing 2 flight tests each. As an absolute minimum that's £nn,000 just for that stage of the process. Seems a lot of people to flight test for their aptitude in an aviation environment, when surely somewhere like Cranwell would not only be cheaper, but can apply a tried and tested selection process adapted for TFO selection.

How many 'got through to' the flight test stage, but didn't 'get to' interview?

Is it true that there was a 'motion sickness test' part of the flight testing? If so, what on earth would that consist of?
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 08:05
  #508 (permalink)  

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Seen here https://mobile.twitter.com/BTPmanchester



Anyone know the details of the agreement; and now with changes afoot, is an earlier plan with BTP playing a major role more than in the pipeline?


http://www.btp.police.uk/pdf/The_Line_January_web.pdf
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 09:29
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gerry,

ive heard that there will be more vacancies when the 3 fixed wings come into service...Not sure of your location but ive heard the 24 hr bases will have them and a helicopter...
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 10:15
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catchems;
ive heard that there will be more vacancies when the 3 fixed wings come into service...Not sure of your location but ive heard the 24 hr bases will have them and a helicopter...
Welcome back catchems, however may I suggest that you and your 'source' make your posts a bit more feasible.


From second quarter 2015, initial 18 month 'trial' fixed wing locations; Exeter, Cambridge & Teeside

The supply & demand … (or should that be demand & supply ) ... of the initial order of 3 will be closely examined over this period. If a further order of 3 additional fixed wing is made, the feasibility of basing them at Manchester, Birmingham & Redhill will be assessed.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 12:03
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The pay question may be answered by the fact that PCs don't get shift allowance
... apart from the extra 10% between the Unsocial hours of 8pm and 6am

Nail
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 16:34
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Is it true that there was a 'motion sickness test' part of the flight testing? If so, what on earth would that consist of?
A few tight turns and mild wingovers was normally enough for us.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 16:40
  #513 (permalink)  

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Ref my last; scratch Cambridge, insert Elstree
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 16:57
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SiloeSid,

The flight test (only one, not two) was a fairly basic plan a few legs/brief/fly a leg/divert to a notional task/vehicle follow type of thing…. and a couple of little extras. You might view it as a fairly limited line check. I did wonder how someone would fare who had NEVER done that sort of thing before. It certainly would have massively favoured any ex-TFOs, and none should have failed it.

The motion sickness aspect … maybe the part where I was given a number of intensive head-in paperwork tasks to sort out, but I don't recall the aircraft being thrown around whilst I was doing them.

Certainly, when the boot was on the other foot, thats what we did (in fixed wing) … got someone to bury their head in a map book whilst carrying out a number of steep turns and changes of direction. Maybe not scientific, but seemed to work. It might seem a statement of the obvious, but fixed-wing motion is different to rotary. I never felt unwell in rotary, but there were some occasions over the years on f/w where I came close to losing my lunch (and many did). Everyone has their limits … mine were as good as or better than many, but not upto the best. I've done aerobatics and my limit was about about 10 mins … except for barrel rolls, which I instantly disliked (albeit that it is a positive G manoeuvre).

I had a colleague who, at the start of his career in Naval Aviation, did his training in fixed wing, and thought that it would be over before it had begun. The moment he moved onto rotary … no problem. And I've flown with a pilot who used to fight turbulence, rather than just let the aircraft 'go with the flow'. We ended up doing Dutch Rolls, and most observers felt sick.

Cranwell … hmmm! I was a guinea pig for that in the 90's - I did quite well … but I've known candidates pass it, and turn out to be hopeless in the air … and a female officer who, by her admission, did very badly at it … but went on to be an excellent observer. And I thought Mersyside or someone ditched it because of potential gender bias (or threat of being biased).

When I had to devise a flight test, it was structured to begin simply and, over 45 mins or so, to become more complex. Top marks were awarded for getting everything right, but it was also designed to credit those who made errors but managed to calmly and quickly recognise and correct any mistakes … because we have all been 'lost' or 90 degrees out in our map/ground orientation. And all of the candidates were given a pre-read … a summary of map-reading, topography, line and point features, etc, which they then had to demonstrate their understanding of on the day, before being thrown into planning their flight.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 20:02
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Here's a follow up to my post #364 regarding costs/savings taking the Capital Contributions into account.

I asked each Force about their Capital Contributions to NPAS. The majority claimed that they had no record of any such contributions, so none were paid!

Upon further interrogation, and the evidence of the NPAS Report they confirmed that the contributions were deducted from their annual Home Office grant. So, although they say they are not paying any Capital Contribution, they are as it’s deducted from the Grant.

The others who answered knew that the Contributions were deducted from their Grant, but said they did not know how much they were paying each year, so I let them know how much NPAS said they were paying.

So, if we compare NPAS’s figures for Contributions with what the Forces told me they paid prior to NPAS, they paid a total of £36,087,787 and £33,768,351(including the Capital Contributions) for the year 2013/14.

That reduces the savings down to £2,319,351, and you have Cumbria who were paying £15,870 are now paying £98,889; Lincs who were paying £30,000, now £97,719; GMP £1,742,718/£2,253,080 to name a few. I bet they are really chuffed. As, I suppose, are the 7 Forces who are paying Capital Contributions but aren’t even members of NPAS yet.
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Old 12th Nov 2014, 21:48
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Are the pilots being retrained to fly planks
Unlikely I would have thought due to the cost.
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 11:36
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Are the pilots being retrained to fly planks, or are they being moved to other pastures for 18 months?
I would imagine finding pilots with dual licences hard to find?
A couple of points on this (IMHO):

1 They dont seem to be able to keep or recruit pilots at the moment due to T and Cs let alone dual license holders

2 I doubt if they could aford to keep pilots dual rated

3 They do not have the infrastructure to run a fixed wing and rotary CAT operation
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 14:28
  #518 (permalink)  

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Are the pilots being retrained to fly planks ...
Imho, one of the most ridiculous questions ever asked on PPRuNe.
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 14:49
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Some police pilots have NEVER flown fixed wing other than for selection procedures in the Army.
I have commercial aeroplane and helicopter licences, both with Instrument Ratings. Make me a good offer and I will consider coming back to police aviation.
A few years ago I offered that very thing to GMP, the interview was nothing about aviation, all about politically correct stuff/conflict resolution etc etc. I didn't really enter into the spirit of that and came across quite poorly. Lucky for me with the way fixed wing went.....
Hopefully the interviews are a little better these days.
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Old 13th Nov 2014, 15:40
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I may not be a pilot … but my thousands of hours working alongside many have given me a good insight into those that have the aptitude … and those that don't. I've seen prospective ones with thousands of hours in their logbooks, but spent in commercial transport, who were just not comfortable manoeuvring at low level, orbiting scenes at night, sometimes in difficult conditions, at a couple of thousand feet with no visual cues. Or being thrown, unplanned, at a moments notice into Class A airspace as a job took an unexpected turn (literally)

Likewise, I've flown with those to whom 'seat of the pants' was second nature … to whom the aircraft seemed to be an extension of themselves. They kept me safe, alive, got the job done, and I had a lot of respect for them.

So the point is that it not just cost that would inhibit converting rotary to f/w … a pilot might be superb on rotary, but just not as comfortable and competent in f/w.

And the idea that interview alone has been the basis for pilot selection … if that was your experience, JayTeeTo … it's worrying
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