seniortrooper

Knowing one of the pilots well - at the Met unit, can I ask (out of curiosity) what will happen to the pilots pay scale as I understand the Met pilots get £85k+ each (or more) and the NPAS pilots get around £50k??
Also, will the 3 x 145 helicopters be replaced by 2 x 135 helicopters?

And finally - will NPAS dictate operations at the Met or will they retain autonomy?

handysnaks

Regarding the salary. The Met pilots should be TUPE'd across so their T's and C's, including salary, should remain the same. The pension however is not part of TUPE. They should be enrolled into the WY LGPS. Their HR department will tell them all this though!

MightyGem

I hear that Hawarden were offline yesterday due to a lack of a pilot. The reason that there was no pilot? He was out of duty hours after flying for other units. You couldn't make it up.

jayteeto

With TUPE, do they then Mark time until normal wages catch up? Could be a long time........

SilsoeSid

This doesn't just happen at the 'warden so I hear!

Pilot availability aside, saving money by not having overtime for TFO's is without doubt, detrimental to operational capability and this is especially so for urban units. This is increasing the number of ac being single crewed resulting in the effectiveness of these units being restricted. In turn, this extends the circumference of these well known circles for those able to do the tasks requiring a full crew. If it doesn't work with traffic or patrol cars, how can we expect it to work with helicopters?

What we end up with is ac flitting across regions covering the shortfall, but never quite getting to the jobs in time due to the extended areas of coverage. A dog chasing its tail may look very funny to 'the owner', but to the dog with it's sense of duty, it's very frustrating. Eventually, people get fed up with watching your dog chasing its tail, so they don't ask for it any more!

Without doubt, this is a direct example of how cost cutting is having a detrimental effect on operational capability.


In the words of Mr Fawlty:
Listen, don't mention the single crewing! I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. [returns to the Germans]
So! It's all forgotten now, and let's hear no more about it. So, that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Wakefield, a Hermann Section 23FA, and four collaboration agreement salads.

Manuel: [hidden behind front desk, with moose head in plain sight] How are YOU, sir? I can speak police aviation. I learn it from a book.



A genuine broadcasted title piece!

handysnaks

Jayteeto.
It depends on how the organisation play the future!
At the moment, you are destined to stay on your existing T's and C's until
1. You leave or retire
2. You ask to go onto the NPAS pay scale (no guarantee that this would be permitted, but as it might be more simple to administrate then maybe the request would be approved).
3. Some time in the future the organisation decides that for an economic, technical or organisational reason, they need to put everyone onto a single NPAS pay scale.

seniortrooper

How long then before someone in NPAS says to their lawyer - I earn £46000 as a line pilot for "X" and the same job next door earns: £85000?
My experience of TUPE suggests that at a minimum, it causes consternation, at worst: disruption and law suits.I suppose you could top up everyone elses salary to that of the Met's when they get cash back from selling one of the EC145's which will be surplus to requirements - no?

Nail The Dream

Predicted ( and feared ) by many before they were forced into NPAS.

Those at NPAS will look at the reduction in hours flown and say,
"Look how much we have saved"

Is there a cut off time for when the 20 minute circles no longer apply ?

It'll be about 3 and half months ( to 1st October ) won't it ?

Nail

handysnaks

Seniortrooper, as the law is fairly clear on the way TUPE works, I suspect the lawyer would advise his client that he doesn't have a case!

I will probably live to regret the next few paragraphs but.......

I think that there is a lot of wishful thinking going on regarding the current situation and comparing it to the past. Had NPAS not happened, police air support would not be like it was prior to NPAS. it may be true to say that there would be some differences in which units were still in existence and which weren't, but to think we wouldn't have lost any is delusional. There is no way of proving how many units would have disappeared but my own guess is that we would have seen at least another 3 or 4 units close down. Furthermore, those units that were left would have ended up doing pretty much what they are doing now (in terms of the distances travelled to tasks), as those forces that kept their aircraft tried to spread the costs of ownership and operation with the forces that were now without air support. I suspect that the Met would have stayed UDI but I think that all other units would have ended up covering much greater areas, (very much like we are doing at the moment). I'm sure everyone has an opinion as to how this or that may have been done better but that is all it is, an opinion. The organisation is what it is and once the decision was made that it would be a single entity, the size of the 'headquarters or managment department' became necessary because of the requirements of the regulator, not through choice.

Sniping and carping is easy, and if you are external to NPAS is your right, if you are in NPAS, then how about putting your (sensible and achievable) suggestions for improving the service through he normal internal channels? The fact is that we are still here to try and provide the best air support we can with the resources we have.

SilsoeSid

I had a sensible and achievable suggestion just last week that was put up the chain. I was even told by said chain that it was indeed a sensible suggestion ….. however;

Sloppy Link

Dear. Mr Sid,
Thank you for your contribution, I shall file it along with the other twenty two volumes of sensible and achievable suggestions that you have submitted in the past.

Regards

NPAS

SilsoeSid

Bugger! …. does this mean the Milton Keynes and Kings Lynn tasks are still up for grabs?

Oh well, Brum always liked an occasional trip to the seaside

SilsoeSid

Technology upgrade will improve NPAS helicopter range | UK Police News - Police Oracle

So, should some not come into NPAS, those units with the upgrades will be able to travel the greater distances needed to cover the shortfall. If the speed was also increased in this upgrade, the 20 minutes will still be achievable. Did I say still achievable!


Has there been any media confirmation that the Met are joining in October and if there has been, does it mention how the service provided will be better?

Art of flight

I wonder if Brum might like the odd trip to London in the middle of the night to enhance the Mets service

SilsoeSid

I believe that has already been requested!

The realisation of an unfamiliar crew going down the M1 or the M40 playing catch up into Heathrow's airspace, and the consequences of then having to call a Cat A, put the dampers on that one!

Of course, Brum has been known to go to the big town before;

Brum and the Helicopter

misterbonkers

Don't panic Captain Mannering! I think you'll find Heathrow quite accommodating in the middle of the night. In fact between 2330 of 0300 you'll probably have the sky to yourselves

Sky Sports

Any word on who has won the maintenance contract yet?

SilsoeSid

That may well be the case MrB, and I have absolutely no doubt that Heathrow are very accommodating, however it's not 'til after 03:00 when the jobs come in!

Nail The Dream

Any truth in the latest rumour I heard about the "Technology Upgrade",
i.e. that although a certain Company ( Bond ) may have won the contract,
there are some logistical, procedural, or regulatory type of issues preventing them from doing the work,
and that the Contract may now pass on to one of the other contenders ( at Oxford ? )

Nail

SilsoeSid

West Yorkshire police chief suspended over ?Northern Ireland criminal activity? - Yorkshire Evening Post