AS332L2 Ditching off Shetland: 23rd August 2013
It's a good point Roundwego and one reason the Military kept with QFE since when the clock got to zero you were at the ground.
I converted to glass cockpit after 32 years of analogue and it was strange to start with but soon became second nature - you have in your head your minima on approach and on some displays you can put a bar there as a visual reminder (this was 365 N3).
Having got used to screens and then going back to analogue, that was equally strange and took a while to get used to.
I don't know what the AS332L2 had but it seems from other posters that it would be normal to have the ALTA set at MDA - this crew did not and it might have saved them.
I converted to glass cockpit after 32 years of analogue and it was strange to start with but soon became second nature - you have in your head your minima on approach and on some displays you can put a bar there as a visual reminder (this was 365 N3).
Having got used to screens and then going back to analogue, that was equally strange and took a while to get used to.
I don't know what the AS332L2 had but it seems from other posters that it would be normal to have the ALTA set at MDA - this crew did not and it might have saved them.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
It's a good point Roundwego and one reason the Military kept with QFE since when the clock got to zero you were at the ground.
I converted to glass cockpit after 32 years of analogue and it was strange to start with but soon became second nature - you have in your head your minima on approach and on some displays you can put a bar there as a visual reminder (this was 365 N3).
Having got used to screens and then going back to analogue, that was equally strange and took a while to get used to.
I don't know what the AS332L2 had but it seems from other posters that it would be normal to have the ALTA set at MDA - this crew did not and it might have saved them.
I converted to glass cockpit after 32 years of analogue and it was strange to start with but soon became second nature - you have in your head your minima on approach and on some displays you can put a bar there as a visual reminder (this was 365 N3).
Having got used to screens and then going back to analogue, that was equally strange and took a while to get used to.
I don't know what the AS332L2 had but it seems from other posters that it would be normal to have the ALTA set at MDA - this crew did not and it might have saved them.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is interesting that no one has mentioned the different ability to recognise changing parameters using vertical strip indicators rather than clock style ones. On a clock style indicator one just has to glance at the position of the needle to recognise a relative value. On a strip indicator, one has to actually read a numeric value and then translate that into a value which is then compared with “normal”. For example, if the 3 o'clock position on a conventional ASI relates to Vy then a glance at the gauge will ring an unconscious bell saying “I am at the point where any reduction in speed will need more power to stop an increase in ROD”. A strip indicator requires one to read a digital value, convert it to an analogue mental model and then compare that with a Flight Manual graph before concluding a consequence.
Which option do you think is the easier processing function?
Which option do you think is the easier processing function?
I'm all for technology, but I have always been disappointed with 'next gen' helicopters.
On round vs strip, I certainly used to think round was better. But once I had got used to strip, I can’t say it was an issue. Strip ASI has the advantage of the trend arrow so you can see at a glance what if any rate of change of airspeed you have, rather than having to check the round gauge twice, or once for longer than ideal.
HC - does the L2 have the speed trend arrow? If it does it makes this event even more baffling.
What cons do the airbus ones have?
having relooked at the report I see there is a speed trend arrow. I also see a lot of altimeter vs range cross-checking, so clearly the PFD was being looked at. Hard to imagine how the rapidly growing yellow arrow would not catch your eye.
interesting to see also that they were briefing to break the minimums if they did a second approach!
having relooked at the report I see there is a speed trend arrow. I also see a lot of altimeter vs range cross-checking, so clearly the PFD was being looked at. Hard to imagine how the rapidly growing yellow arrow would not catch your eye.
interesting to see also that they were briefing to break the minimums if they did a second approach!
What cons do the airbus ones have?
having relooked at the report I see there is a speed trend arrow. I also see a lot of altimeter vs range cross-checking, so clearly the PFD was being looked at. Hard to imagine how the rapidly growing yellow arrow would not catch your eye.
interesting to see also that they were briefing to break the minimums if they did a second approach!
having relooked at the report I see there is a speed trend arrow. I also see a lot of altimeter vs range cross-checking, so clearly the PFD was being looked at. Hard to imagine how the rapidly growing yellow arrow would not catch your eye.
interesting to see also that they were briefing to break the minimums if they did a second approach!
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: retirementland
Age: 79
Posts: 769
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That would never have happened at a Shell facility
I think it's important to re-mention that they had planned for two approaches at Sumburgh and then a diversion to Scatsta. This accident occurred on the first approach to Sumburgh.
Indeed.. I was flying that day into Scatsta and have a photo somewhere at about the same time the 332 crashed, i seem to recall it was glorious weather and in my experience of 7 years of flying out of there, my opinion is that the weather was generally significantly better at Scatsta than down at Sumburgh which was I believe, one of the original factors behind the decision to start Scatsta up again all those years ago. Sadly the islands aren’t big enough (or the oil price isn’t anymore) to support 2 IFR airfields in the Shetlands.
How come the report states the weather at the time as BKN/OVC* 300ft at the time of the accident?
*Correct as necessary - I just remember from the report it was similar to the conditions at Sumburg.
Indeed.. I was flying that day into Scatsta and have a photo somewhere at about the same time the 332 crashed, i seem to recall it was glorious weather and in my experience of 7 years of flying out of there, my opinion is that the weather was generally significantly better at Scatsta than down at Sumburgh which was I believe, one of the original factors behind the decision to start Scatsta up again all those years ago. Sadly the islands aren’t big enough (or the oil price isn’t anymore) to support 2 IFR airfields in the Shetlands.
Having reread the report, the 1720 at Scatsta (within minutes of the accident) the vis was 4700m and cloud overcast at 300ft.
My experience of flying out of the Shetlands is that local knowledge was worth its weight in gold, those south-easterly winds always brought on a cold sweat at the prospect of the rapid onset of fog. Luckily for us up there Sumburgh normally fogged out first and on ‘interesting’ weather days we’d be listening to the Sum ATiS on the way out to the basin not just on the way back and more than once I’ve turned around as Sum started fogging out.
RIP.
Edit: 1650z metar is almost identical too 5000m and BKN007, but as others above mentioned 1720 shows rapid decline to OVC003. The accident was at 1717.
Last edited by SimonK; 25th Oct 2020 at 07:58.
How would ALTA have helped? Its IAS that would have helped. Without IAS, ALTA would have hindered the situation.
You just can't help yourself having a pop can you HC?
I spent my Friday and Saturday teaching NVD and SAR, what did you do?