AS332L2 Ditching off Shetland: 23rd August 2013
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From the world leading BBC "news" website;
Heaven spare us from commentary by "experts" like this imbecile. He knows less about helicopters than my Granny!
Tim Ripley, an aviation expert with Jane's Defence Weekly, told the BBC there were "many possible scenarios" behind the helicopter crash.
He said: "The most common one at low level for aircraft and helicopters is bird strikes.
"If one of these helicopters ingested a bird it would cause a very, very nasty accident.
He said: "The most common one at low level for aircraft and helicopters is bird strikes.
"If one of these helicopters ingested a bird it would cause a very, very nasty accident.
Jimf, all our helicopters are equipped with satellite tracking systems that report position at a configurable rate (not sure if its every minute). So such a system is there, its just not open for general public viewing.
Why even the Rednecks in the GOM have tracking systems.....so that rules out the North Sea getting them as who would want to admit the GOM is in advance of the North Sea.
TLN there is a difference between a moving map display and an MFD showing navigational situational awareness. I guess you are not in the industry, otherwise you would understand.
Were it not for the grounding of the 225, all our N Sea fleet would have a MFDs showing the sort of thing you mean. As it is, we do have some legacy 332Ls taken out of retirement in the short term to fill the gap left by the 225s. I can assure you that those who had to go back to the 332L wish they could get back on the 225 for just this sort of reason.
Were it not for the grounding of the 225, all our N Sea fleet would have a MFDs showing the sort of thing you mean. As it is, we do have some legacy 332Ls taken out of retirement in the short term to fill the gap left by the 225s. I can assure you that those who had to go back to the 332L wish they could get back on the 225 for just this sort of reason.
Another sad day for North Sea aviation. Sincerest condolences to the families and friends and respect to all those who were either on scene or contributed to facilitating a fine rescue effort.
Thanks HC.
Does anyone else have access to the data? ARCC for instance?
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Bond S-92 85P LN_OEC on planefinder and just passed over Peterhead at 122kts 2500ft on return to Dyce. Track shows dep ABZ and visit offshore location (track not accept query position).
Does anyone else have access to the data? ARCC for instance?
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Bond S-92 85P LN_OEC on planefinder and just passed over Peterhead at 122kts 2500ft on return to Dyce. Track shows dep ABZ and visit offshore location (track not accept query position).
Last edited by jimf671; 24th Aug 2013 at 16:07.
HC
Not in the North Sea industry.
But I do fly AS332s (not EC225s) in support of the OS oil industry.
I've found MFDs like the Apollo MX20 very good. (An old bit of kit)
The moving map GPS display available on an iPad is light years ahead of what is available in many AS332s.
I didn't say they were the same thing. Either would be an improvement on neither.
I guess you are not a pilot, otherwise you would understand.
TLN there is a difference between a moving map display and an MFD showing navigational situational awareness. I guess you are not in the industry, otherwise you would understand.
But I do fly AS332s (not EC225s) in support of the OS oil industry.
I've found MFDs like the Apollo MX20 very good. (An old bit of kit)
The moving map GPS display available on an iPad is light years ahead of what is available in many AS332s.
I didn't say they were the same thing. Either would be an improvement on neither.
I guess you are not a pilot, otherwise you would understand.
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Can i assume (im a ppl so please don't get technical) that the ac was intercepting the localiser for 09 as the vis/ weather was bad...... do they use 09 as the approach is over the sea not high land.... i ask as having looked at google earth and having read the metar that an approach to 15 would have brought them direct into wind (140 deg at 20kts)... even in a super puma that's a brisk old wind.
Does 15 not have a localiser/ils and or is the approach unsuitable in bad weather. Assuming they approach to the numbers can i assume that the puma would nose into wind once the runway was in siight??
Im just trying to get a picture of the final moments. RIP.
Does 15 not have a localiser/ils and or is the approach unsuitable in bad weather. Assuming they approach to the numbers can i assume that the puma would nose into wind once the runway was in siight??
Im just trying to get a picture of the final moments. RIP.
Last edited by stringfellow; 24th Aug 2013 at 16:17.
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Does anyone else have access to the data? ARCC for instance?
Locating the A/C and survivors didn't seem to be an issue here.
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“I knew straight away it was an L2 because it only has three wheels, one at the front and two at the back.”
At last an expert witnes. Something sound to work around.
At last an expert witnes. Something sound to work around.
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There is only and ILS to 27, and LOC/DME to 09. The high ground to the west and east make 03/15 unsuitable for anything other than a visual approach.
An approach to 09 with 20kts from the right wouldn't be that uncomfortable. All the way down the LOC, you would have compensated for drift anyway, so when you get visual you're already nose into wind drifting left toward the runway.
An approach to 09 with 20kts from the right wouldn't be that uncomfortable. All the way down the LOC, you would have compensated for drift anyway, so when you get visual you're already nose into wind drifting left toward the runway.
Am I write in saying that all of the information in the press so far, including quotes and requotes, have all come from an interview with one of the passengers mothers?? Amazing how other experts and officials are now providing opinions and analysis based on a single interview with someone potentially in Milton Keynes!
Last edited by Special 25; 24th Aug 2013 at 17:08.
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I'm intrigued by the tracking device discussion. I would be more interested in the rather persistent set of problems which appear to be surrounding various Eurocopter supported transmission systems (OK, I'm taking a slight leap of faith regarding yesterday's accident).
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HC,
A question that I keep asking.....why are these event happening on the UK side of the North Sea and not on the other side? Is it just my memory fails me or are we really not seeing any on the other side? I am not suggesting anything....so don't get your feathers ruffled.....honest question here.
If we are not having crashes and ditching on the east side....then what are the factors that might be in play that keeps them from having the same problem?
A question that I keep asking.....why are these event happening on the UK side of the North Sea and not on the other side? Is it just my memory fails me or are we really not seeing any on the other side? I am not suggesting anything....so don't get your feathers ruffled.....honest question here.
If we are not having crashes and ditching on the east side....then what are the factors that might be in play that keeps them from having the same problem?
As I know it, in the British side the helicopter companies follow manufacturer and EU rules regarding maintenance and training. On the Norwegian sides all companies follow stricter rules laid out in three safety reports from Sintef in Trondheim. Sadly I don't have any links to those reports, but among other things they mandates more frequent maintenance and checkups compared to manufacturer and EU schedules.
One other difference is that on the Norwegian side the power out take from the engines is limited to 80 percent under normal operations in order to reduce the load on key transmission components.
The last accident with fatalities on the Norwegian side ocured in -97 when a AS332 L1 went down en route to the "Norne" ship. The reason for this accident was that the splined sleeve on the right input shaft for the MGB had developed several fatigue cracks. This lead to a lock washer coming loose, the bendix shaft got affected, imbalance developed. The shaft then failed, and the RPM regulation of the right turbine also failed or was to slow with the result that the rpm increased uncontrollably until the turbine disc disintegrated at 175 percent rpm. Fragments of the disc severed several control links for the main rotor as well as the tail rotor and also destroyed the left engine.
Lastly I can say that yearly hours flown is about ten or twenty percent greater on the Norwegian side compared to the British side.
Last edited by SteinarN; 24th Aug 2013 at 17:25.
Jimf, it a web- based interface to view the data so anyone with the appropriate login details can view the Bristow fleet worldwide.
You saw the S92 on plane finder because it must have extended squitter on its transponder. Glad to see SK are progressing in this area. Our recent EC225s also have extended squitter - after we made a fuss.
You saw the S92 on plane finder because it must have extended squitter on its transponder. Glad to see SK are progressing in this area. Our recent EC225s also have extended squitter - after we made a fuss.
