Bell 505 Jet Ranger X
The 505 has just done its high altitude trials in Nepal and apparently been a great success . It is now I think cleared for elevations of up to 22,000 ft ( da ) and was happily flying at 125 Knots ( yes FH .... really !!) . 13k hrs flying for the fleet so far I hear .
I really don’t want to sell it as I truly believe it will 1) be extremely cheap to run especially during the 1000 hrs warranty 2) appreciate in value as people realise that it is extraordinary value .... it is after all an L4 with new cockpit , twin fadec and glass cockpit .... but for under 50 % of the price .
The only problem I have is that my beloved old 109 cannot sell even for $280k with a fresh Annual ( it’s just coming out in a few days ) which is cheaper than a 1970,s Jet Banger with 20,000 hrs !!!! So my feeling is , my wife loves it , my friends love it .... it has been ultra reliable ... so why get rid of 150 knots of ultra smooth comfort Single pilot IFR twin and relegate down to a single which is 5 X the price ! So I think you are right .... the 505 will have to go !! ( eventually)
The only problem I have is that my beloved old 109 cannot sell even for $280k with a fresh Annual ( it’s just coming out in a few days ) which is cheaper than a 1970,s Jet Banger with 20,000 hrs !!!! So my feeling is , my wife loves it , my friends love it .... it has been ultra reliable ... so why get rid of 150 knots of ultra smooth comfort Single pilot IFR twin and relegate down to a single which is 5 X the price ! So I think you are right .... the 505 will have to go !! ( eventually)
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It seems a 505 has crashed in the country of Georgia. 3 fatalities.
http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/arti...sh-in-kazbegi/
http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/arti...sh-in-kazbegi/
505
I really don’t want to sell it as I truly believe it will 1) be extremely cheap to run especially during the 1000 hrs warranty 2) appreciate in value as people realise that it is extraordinary value .... it is after all an L4 with new cockpit , twin fadec and glass cockpit .... but for under 50 % of the price .
The only problem I have is that my beloved old 109 cannot sell even for $280k with a fresh Annual ( it’s just coming out in a few days ) which is cheaper than a 1970,s Jet Banger with 20,000 hrs !!!! So my feeling is , my wife loves it , my friends love it .... it has been ultra reliable ... so why get rid of 150 knots of ultra smooth comfort Single pilot IFR twin and relegate down to a single which is 5 X the price ! So I think you are right .... the 505 will have to go !! ( eventually)
The only problem I have is that my beloved old 109 cannot sell even for $280k with a fresh Annual ( it’s just coming out in a few days ) which is cheaper than a 1970,s Jet Banger with 20,000 hrs !!!! So my feeling is , my wife loves it , my friends love it .... it has been ultra reliable ... so why get rid of 150 knots of ultra smooth comfort Single pilot IFR twin and relegate down to a single which is 5 X the price ! So I think you are right .... the 505 will have to go !! ( eventually)
No I have kept it and sold my 109 to Canada .
i have sold a few blocks of 25 hrs and am allowing some SFH out of Wycombe and Goodwood . Also doing a number of type ratings over the next few months and then mountain flying course and possibly vertical reference course if one or two want to do it with me ! My son is now also flying it and absolutely loves it ..... ultra smooth and bags of power . A few people are looking at it now as an upgrade from the R66 and they seem to be really impressed so far . So yes .... keeping it and loving it , especially the tiny maintenance costs .
i have sold a few blocks of 25 hrs and am allowing some SFH out of Wycombe and Goodwood . Also doing a number of type ratings over the next few months and then mountain flying course and possibly vertical reference course if one or two want to do it with me ! My son is now also flying it and absolutely loves it ..... ultra smooth and bags of power . A few people are looking at it now as an upgrade from the R66 and they seem to be really impressed so far . So yes .... keeping it and loving it , especially the tiny maintenance costs .
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This thread has gone quiet recently!
Have just read this thread from the beginning as a 505 is on the list of options Im considering for purchase in the near future. It certainly has been an interesting ride!
One question... There was a lot of concerns raised early on about the Turbine manufacturer chosen by Bell for the 505, but little comment recently, how are peoples view on Turbomecca now.
My understanding is that they are not popular because of their poor service /support slow times to get spares and expensive rebuilds?... Anyone care to give any opinions on this?
Have just read this thread from the beginning as a 505 is on the list of options Im considering for purchase in the near future. It certainly has been an interesting ride!
One question... There was a lot of concerns raised early on about the Turbine manufacturer chosen by Bell for the 505, but little comment recently, how are peoples view on Turbomecca now.
My understanding is that they are not popular because of their poor service /support slow times to get spares and expensive rebuilds?... Anyone care to give any opinions on this?
Don’t think twice about it ..., it’s a fabulous machine !!! I was going to sell mine but have really fallen in love with it now . Couple of small issues early on with engine which were all sorted FOC by Saffran . Only thing I know of is it is v important to not overfill the oil on the engine . You must check the level straight after flight and not when cold . I would say if in doubt don’t mess with the oil as these engines actually run better on slightly low oil and if you have to add oil within 25 hrs you have a leak !
my annual and 6 month inspections cost nothing ( under £1k for 6 month ) . The C of G issues are being dealt with my a pilot approved system where you can change the weights on the tail depending on what you are doing ..... but like moving the battery on the Enstrom I think . Mine is currently at Wycombe and i now have three pilots with hour blocks and plenty of type ratings to be done .
It is a very easy helicopter to fly which autorotates like a glider and doesn’t seem to have any vices so perfect for SFH . And funnily enough , after all the talk of being ugly , I have found most people think it’s beautiful 😍
I really can’t think of any serious competition that it has in the price range for a proper helicopter . ( ie not a Robinson )
And no ... mine is not for sale even at a profit !!
my annual and 6 month inspections cost nothing ( under £1k for 6 month ) . The C of G issues are being dealt with my a pilot approved system where you can change the weights on the tail depending on what you are doing ..... but like moving the battery on the Enstrom I think . Mine is currently at Wycombe and i now have three pilots with hour blocks and plenty of type ratings to be done .
It is a very easy helicopter to fly which autorotates like a glider and doesn’t seem to have any vices so perfect for SFH . And funnily enough , after all the talk of being ugly , I have found most people think it’s beautiful 😍
I really can’t think of any serious competition that it has in the price range for a proper helicopter . ( ie not a Robinson )
And no ... mine is not for sale even at a profit !!
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Thanks for your thoughts Nigel. I certainly think that the 505 is a good looking machine, so I definitely have no concerns with the looks.
Unlike you there in the UK we are a loooong way from Safran, and I hear a lot of stories about their poor service and extended times that machines are on the ground waiting for parts and service for Turbomeca turbines, and of course the price that people have to pay. I do know of one local 505 buyer who has had the machine a little over a year and had several major issues with it included having to make an emergency landing during the delivery flight due to an oil problem.
Once again thanks for your comments.
Unlike you there in the UK we are a loooong way from Safran, and I hear a lot of stories about their poor service and extended times that machines are on the ground waiting for parts and service for Turbomeca turbines, and of course the price that people have to pay. I do know of one local 505 buyer who has had the machine a little over a year and had several major issues with it included having to make an emergency landing during the delivery flight due to an oil problem.
Once again thanks for your comments.
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Take away the Robinson hate and the comparison becomes much more interesting.
The avionics are almost a wash if you spec the 1060 TXi in the 66, although you can't beat the integrated engine instrumentation and FADEC in the 505 (rumor is that Robinson is working on some new engine instrumentation).
Most significant, if you option out the 505 so that it matches the box stock 66 (leather, carpet, door openers, headliner), plus AC for both (but spec. the available lightweight Lithium battery for the 66), you wind up being able to haul 911 lbs of pax/baggage 350NM in the 66, while the 505 limps along with only 774 lbs for a paltry 306 NM.
Plus the 66 is a more mature product in that you can get an autopilot and aux. fuel systems straight from the factory today (fly even farther more easily).
However you slice it you'll pay less out the door for a 66.
But the 505 will hover higher/hotter, go faster, and be more comfortable with that flat floor and only 3 on board
The avionics are almost a wash if you spec the 1060 TXi in the 66, although you can't beat the integrated engine instrumentation and FADEC in the 505 (rumor is that Robinson is working on some new engine instrumentation).
Most significant, if you option out the 505 so that it matches the box stock 66 (leather, carpet, door openers, headliner), plus AC for both (but spec. the available lightweight Lithium battery for the 66), you wind up being able to haul 911 lbs of pax/baggage 350NM in the 66, while the 505 limps along with only 774 lbs for a paltry 306 NM.
Plus the 66 is a more mature product in that you can get an autopilot and aux. fuel systems straight from the factory today (fly even farther more easily).
However you slice it you'll pay less out the door for a 66.
But the 505 will hover higher/hotter, go faster, and be more comfortable with that flat floor and only 3 on board
You buy a Robbie because you have to.
If it was only about superficial comparisons of features, then the world would be full of Korean cars and luxury sedans wouldn't exist (not that the 505 is luxury in any sense of the word, it's quite Robinson-esque in some respects).
The devil is always in the detail.
aa you have put together a specific scenario of a/c , lightweight battery etc which may or may not be correct but for most people like myself I am only interested in the spec I have . It can also take just about 950 kg on the hook which may be more important to other people ...
as for the engine there are power by the hour packages as well but the work I have had done on the engine was done for free . I do think the oil overfilling will be a big problem for people who feel the need to always “ top up “ .... personally I have only ever put oil into my engines about 5 times in last 20 years !!
i agree about personal preference. I really like the fact that I am flying , to all intents and purposes , an L4 Long Ranger which has got more safe hours under its belt than most aircraft and would be $3m to buy one new if they still made them . I think I prefer over engineered to flimsy any day for peace of mind . As for autopilot and aux tanks I think you can now get both for the 505 .
as for the engine there are power by the hour packages as well but the work I have had done on the engine was done for free . I do think the oil overfilling will be a big problem for people who feel the need to always “ top up “ .... personally I have only ever put oil into my engines about 5 times in last 20 years !!
i agree about personal preference. I really like the fact that I am flying , to all intents and purposes , an L4 Long Ranger which has got more safe hours under its belt than most aircraft and would be $3m to buy one new if they still made them . I think I prefer over engineered to flimsy any day for peace of mind . As for autopilot and aux tanks I think you can now get both for the 505 .
When comparing the costs between the 505 and the R66 - the figures that manufacturers are quoting is based upon the machine running through all of it's hours. This is an important point. For instance, the power-plant in R66 is rated for 2000hrs and 3000 cylces. This means unless on average you're doing at least 40mins per cycle, you will not reach the 3000hrs the engine is rated for. When one accounts for maintenance runs and occasional aborted start up then the figure will be closer to the one hour mark per start. In practice many R66 are for sale at the moment for pennies on the dollar because of this. So if you're an operator who does very long cycles you can be better off with a second hand R66 which has plenty of life left but not cycles. If you're a private buyer who goes on occasional 20min flight here or there, or an operator who does 20min scenic flights and has to often shutdown; the R66 can and will cost a lot more than the factory figures reveal. Resale value matters; especially when one is trying to sell a machine - case and point, meet this lemon 636 cycles left, for the 2000 hours to run: [pprune wont let me link because of my post count] - Blindly looking at hourly costs published can lead to uncomfortable situations in the future
Last edited by nikoel; 3rd Mar 2020 at 07:08.
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It seems a 505 has crashed in the country of Georgia. 3 fatalities.
http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/arti...sh-in-kazbegi/
http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/arti...sh-in-kazbegi/
Not sure how reliable this is ..... here is a quote from the article ....
Investigators, who are at the crash site where a helicopter crashed in Turkana have revealed that Mr Magonga , flew the helicopter at night in a bush without navigation facilities, contrary to civil aviation regulations.
The fatal helicopter, a Bell 505X, costing about Sh450 million, came tumbling down on Sunday night at Central Island, an area made up of three active volcanoes which emit sulphurous smoke and steam, adding to the gem that is the blue-green waters of Lake Turkana.
The fatal helicopter, a Bell 505X, costing about Sh450 million, came tumbling down on Sunday night at Central Island, an area made up of three active volcanoes which emit sulphurous smoke and steam, adding to the gem that is the blue-green waters of Lake Turkana.
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https://dailyactive.info/2019/03/06/...icopter-crash/
That's not a Bell 505 in those pictures...
That's not a Bell 505 in those pictures...
