Bell 505 Jet Ranger X
FH.....you really do " lead with your chin " !!!
You have made so many speculations on a helicopter you seem to know very little about ...and pass them off as fact . Just because you shout loudest doesn't make you correct . Also you have picked on so many aspects I can assume that by law of averages you will get lucky on one of them ..( a blind squirrel will still find the odd nut ...!!)
You are not only wrong on your speed , you also quote me incorrectly .... I said 125kn NOT 135kn which I think very unlikely . The seats are all wrong as well aren't they ? Now you are also an expert seat maker to boot !!!
Just chill out and accept that Bell possibly , their engineers , their test pilots ....possibly know more about this than you and I ....!!! And don't forget that IF it gets certified , and IF it can cruise at 125kn , if it is delivered for $1.075m .....then you WILL eat your hat !!
Ps ....I'm not an armchair warrior and certainly don't hide behind anything ....I think I would be easy to find ......!!!
You have made so many speculations on a helicopter you seem to know very little about ...and pass them off as fact . Just because you shout loudest doesn't make you correct . Also you have picked on so many aspects I can assume that by law of averages you will get lucky on one of them ..( a blind squirrel will still find the odd nut ...!!)
You are not only wrong on your speed , you also quote me incorrectly .... I said 125kn NOT 135kn which I think very unlikely . The seats are all wrong as well aren't they ? Now you are also an expert seat maker to boot !!!
Just chill out and accept that Bell possibly , their engineers , their test pilots ....possibly know more about this than you and I ....!!! And don't forget that IF it gets certified , and IF it can cruise at 125kn , if it is delivered for $1.075m .....then you WILL eat your hat !!
Ps ....I'm not an armchair warrior and certainly don't hide behind anything ....I think I would be easy to find ......!!!
Thread Starter
From Vertical mag in july 2014:
"The project will take concurrent critical paths to certification, with the first type certificate coming from Transport Canada"
Bell gives 505 JetRanger X update| Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry
"The project will take concurrent critical paths to certification, with the first type certificate coming from Transport Canada"
Bell gives 505 JetRanger X update| Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry
Thread Starter
Yes Nigel. 2 years old.
Just sayin it was always the plan to get a new type certificate on the 505. Also speed has been quoted as around 125kts since I have been following the development.
Just sayin it was always the plan to get a new type certificate on the 505. Also speed has been quoted as around 125kts since I have been following the development.
Fh1100 ....
I don't remember your prediction that they would move production of the 505 ....
I do however remember all of your other predictions and at present you don't seem to
be correct on any ! In this climate moving your production to the cheapest place seems common sense . Everything I hear so far is that the 505 is going to deliver More than expected ... Not less . But we shall see . And if it does get built , if it does fly at 125 knots ...you get to eat your hat !!!
I don't remember your prediction that they would move production of the 505 ....
I do however remember all of your other predictions and at present you don't seem to
be correct on any ! In this climate moving your production to the cheapest place seems common sense . Everything I hear so far is that the 505 is going to deliver More than expected ... Not less . But we shall see . And if it does get built , if it does fly at 125 knots ...you get to eat your hat !!!
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The decision seems to have been based on three drivers: i) Bell hit a regulatory hurdle with the original plan to certify the aircraft in Canada but manufacture it in the USA; ii) Bell was under pressure from the Canadian government to demonstrate its commitment to Mirabel (and thus justify its continued receipt of Industry Canada financial assistance) after reducing the workforce there by 50% over five years; iii) Weak market conditions. Per AIN:
Re: the weak market conditions, sales of the R66 have tailed off noticeably:
(Data from GAMA and Ascend)
I/C
“Our Lafayette facility was a new operation and therefore required a more extensive review by the FAA to receive its production certification,” the [Bell] spokeswoman said. “We anticipate that adding the 505 to our existing production certification in Mirabel will be less complex. Once we have completed the certification process, we can begin production and deliveries from Mirabel. The decision to move the 505 assembly and delivery center from Lafayette was driven by market conditions and the imperative to maintain our expertise and skills in Mirabel.”
(Data from GAMA and Ascend)
I/C
Well , would you buy a new Robinson R66 even with just the "possibility" of the 505 getting built and certified within the next year ??!! I think everyone would agree that IF it lives up to the claims from Bell , including PBH with known costs per hour , the proven L4 blades and rugged and reliable drive train , full glass cockpit inc synthetic vision , autopilot , new crashworthy seats ........ The list goes on ...
All for $1.15m , which is not a lot more than the R66 which is old school tech .
One thing is for sure ( if it does get built and sold ) and that is that the 505 will rise in value quickly or the R66 will drop quickly . That's almost certain especially as the L4 price new is over $2m and with the 505 you are effectively getting one with new cockpit but 2 less seats ...
All for $1.15m , which is not a lot more than the R66 which is old school tech .
One thing is for sure ( if it does get built and sold ) and that is that the 505 will rise in value quickly or the R66 will drop quickly . That's almost certain especially as the L4 price new is over $2m and with the 505 you are effectively getting one with new cockpit but 2 less seats ...
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even with just the "possibility" of the 505 getting built and certified within the next year ??!!
( if it does get built and sold )
Darn ugly it is tough. But I guess with the planned pricetag you can't have it all...
Last edited by Finnrotor.com; 20th May 2016 at 23:56.
I agree , I think it will be built and be very successful ! The point is that it should be at least 50% more than the R66 and its only 10-20% more at current prices . That's why it will either go up to $1.5m or the R66 will go down ( or stop selling ) . That's market economics !!
Nigel, you certainly are a dreamer, I'll give you that. But man, if you think that old L-4 rotor system is going to go 125 knots, well, you've crossed over from merely dreaming to actual hallucinating.
Moreover, you really can't be seriously suggesting that production of the R-66 might cease upon the introduction to the market of the 505, can you? You must not know much about things like brand-loyalty. Or helicopters, evidently.
No, I did not predict that Bell would move the 505 production to Canada. But it is no surprise. But then, you'd think they'd have some of those details worked out beforehand... before committing such a large sum of money to building that big plant next to PHI.
No, I'm quite sure that Bell will at some time in the near future quietly announce the demise of the 505. They'll blame it on "market conditions" or some such nonsense. The reality will be that they got fewer Letters of Intent than they wanted, and not enough firm orders. Just like Cessna with their "all-new" model 162, which wasn't all-new at all.
Moreover, you really can't be seriously suggesting that production of the R-66 might cease upon the introduction to the market of the 505, can you? You must not know much about things like brand-loyalty. Or helicopters, evidently.
No, I did not predict that Bell would move the 505 production to Canada. But it is no surprise. But then, you'd think they'd have some of those details worked out beforehand... before committing such a large sum of money to building that big plant next to PHI.
No, I'm quite sure that Bell will at some time in the near future quietly announce the demise of the 505. They'll blame it on "market conditions" or some such nonsense. The reality will be that they got fewer Letters of Intent than they wanted, and not enough firm orders. Just like Cessna with their "all-new" model 162, which wasn't all-new at all.
FH1100 ..... You just don't know when your beaten and are becoming a bit of a joke !! How many helicopters have you owned ?? ( just interested about your view on brand loyalty ) . I have owned 5 different makes ...Bell , EC , Enstrom, MD and Agusta . I bought the right helicopter for me at that time and if I could get it at the right price and I would say most people are the same .
You will not by helicopter A if helicopter B is better and cheaper !!
So you may be able to fly one ..... But I don't believe you are anywhere near the expert you obviously think you are !!!!
So here we are now , lots of predictions by you saying Bell have got it all wrong ...they will have to redesign it , it will be slow and uncomfortable ... Blah blah .
Well the biggest news comes about moving and you make out that you had predicted it ... And you hadn't !!!!!
I know you will ne thrilled when deliveries start and you have digested your hat.
You will not by helicopter A if helicopter B is better and cheaper !!
So you may be able to fly one ..... But I don't believe you are anywhere near the expert you obviously think you are !!!!
So here we are now , lots of predictions by you saying Bell have got it all wrong ...they will have to redesign it , it will be slow and uncomfortable ... Blah blah .
Well the biggest news comes about moving and you make out that you had predicted it ... And you hadn't !!!!!
I know you will ne thrilled when deliveries start and you have digested your hat.
No, I'm quite sure that Bell will at some time in the near future quietly announce the demise of the 505. They'll blame it on "market conditions" or some such nonsense. The reality will be that they got fewer Letters of Intent than they wanted, and not enough firm orders.
Soooo, an L-4 is $2 million(?) and you geniuses think Bell can bring the 505 to market for "around" a million? That's hilarious. Furthermore, you geniuses think it'll go 125 knots? Stop, you're killing me. Seriously.
Latest News .....
A village near Pensacola , Florida , has reported that they are missing their idiot . It is thought he may be lurking around the rotorheads forum of Pprune ,
Pretending to be a helicopter expert . The public have been advised not to try to reason with him .
A village near Pensacola , Florida , has reported that they are missing their idiot . It is thought he may be lurking around the rotorheads forum of Pprune ,
Pretending to be a helicopter expert . The public have been advised not to try to reason with him .
VH-LIN was a B206L on low skids, polished everything and I used to cruise at 120kts on a C20B at 80%Tq.
Quite why someone is so down on Bell as to deny anything and everything is beyond me.
Quite why someone is so down on Bell as to deny anything and everything is beyond me.
pulling-up a comfy chair and opening a bottle....
"Bell is the Dogs' proverbials - discuss"
Whilst the 505 is looking like a substantial leap in the market - wary of who is pushing the PR/marketing - especially after what came out recently describing the 525 as the 225 replacement - harsh and has a long way to go.......
that said, it has got a lot of knowledgeable pilots/engineers quite excited and dusting-off their goat leather flying gloves.
just hope they are not embarrassed like EC when they lauded the arrival of the 155B - then had to quickly bring out the B1.........
"Bell is the Dogs' proverbials - discuss"
Whilst the 505 is looking like a substantial leap in the market - wary of who is pushing the PR/marketing - especially after what came out recently describing the 525 as the 225 replacement - harsh and has a long way to go.......
that said, it has got a lot of knowledgeable pilots/engineers quite excited and dusting-off their goat leather flying gloves.
just hope they are not embarrassed like EC when they lauded the arrival of the 155B - then had to quickly bring out the B1.........