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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 9th Sep 2014, 01:24
  #961 (permalink)  
 
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Bristow Accepts first Sikorsky S-92® Helicopter For Long-Term Search and Rescue Services in UK

COATESVILLE, Pa., Sept. 8, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Sikorsky Aircraft Corp. and Bristow Group Inc. today announced the acceptance of an S-92® helicopter by Bristow Helicopters Ltd. The helicopter, configured for search and rescue service, was accepted during a ceremony at the Sikorsky facility in Coatesville, Pennsylvania. Bristow Helicopters Ltd. is affiliated with Bristow Group Inc.
In March 2013, Bristow Helicopters Ltd. was awarded the contract to provide search and rescue helicopter service in the United Kingdom. The contract begins in April 2015 and runs until 2026. Bristow Helicopters Ltd.'s U.K. SAR (search and rescue) fleet of 22 aircraft will include 11 Sikorsky S-92 helicopters that are fitted with state-of-the-art technology.

Under the U.K. SAR contract, Bristow will operate from 10 bases across the U.K., strategically located near areas of high SAR incident rates. These include Inverness, Manston, Prestwick, Caernarfon, Humberside, Newquay, St Athan, Lee-on-Solent, Sumburgh and Stornoway.

"We are very excited to receive the first aircraft from Sikorsky for our U.K. search and rescue fleet," said Jonathan Baliff, President and Chief Executive Officer of Bristow Group Inc. "With more than 60 S-92 helicopters already in our inventory, we have come to know and appreciate the aircraft's mission capabilities."

"At Sikorsky, we stand behind our mission statement: 'We pioneer flight solutions that bring people home everywhere…every time,'" said Carey Bond, President, Sikorsky Commercial Systems & Services. "Bristow has a long history of search and rescue, and we are proud to support their efforts in the United Kingdom to bring people home. Sikorsky would also like to thank the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and Bristow as the operator for their choice of the S-92 helicopter for this very critical mission."

Sikorsky and Bristow have done business for more than 40 years. The Bristow fleet currently features more than 160 Sikorsky aircraft of various types.

Bristow Helicopters Ltd. has a long history of providing SAR services in the U.K., dating back to 1971, when Whirlwind helicopters were replaced by Bristow S-55 helicopters at RAF Manston, in Kent, and continuing with the operation of S-61 helicopters working at four SAR bases, Stornoway, Sumburgh, Lee-on-Solent and Portland, until 2007. In 2012 the company was awarded the U.K. Gap SAR contract for Northern Scotland and, working in partnership with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, currently operates four SAR helicopters from Sumburgh and Stornoway.

In total Bristow Helicopters Ltd. has flown more than 44,000 SAR operational hours in the U.K. and conducted over 15,000 SAR missions, during which more than 7,000 people have been rescued by the company's crews and helicopters.

Bristow has led the industry in introducing new aircraft types and technology to the civil market. The SAR equipment it has developed has become the industry standard, resulting in Bristow Helicopters Ltd. being recognized with the Queen's Award for Innovation for its technical developments.

This month also marks the 10-year anniversary of the initial delivery of the S-92 helicopter. The S-92 helicopter meets or exceeds oil and gas industry requirements. These helicopters perform search and rescue missions, head of state missions, as well as a variety of transportation missions for offshore oil and gas crews, utility and airline passengers. The U.S. Navy recently selected Sikorsky to build a fleet of Marine One helicopters, based on the FAA-certified S-92 aircraft, to transport the Office of the President beginning late in 2020. The S-92 fleet has accumulated more than 700,000 flight hours including 21,000 in SAR operations.

Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., based in Stratford, Connecticut, is a world leader in aircraft design, manufacture and service. United Technologies Corp., based in Hartford, Connecticut, provides high-technology products and support services to the aerospace and building systems industries.
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Old 9th Sep 2014, 16:38
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"Bristow UK are still struggling it seems to locate bodies for the SAR UK contract as far a rear crew go, and now with whispers they will need more to cover a 24/7 SAR Oil & Gas commitment in FI starting in January.... Where will all these guys come from?"


Oh dear! All those guys who said it was their last FI Det on 78/1564 could now be on a Falklands roulement again. I wonder if there was anything in the employment contract smallprint about that!!

Is this what the extra 25 crews advertised for earlier in the year are for?
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 09:22
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Rear crew pay

Go on, I'll have to ask, what are the rates for the rear seaters? Are there any increments, if so what?
Years back I heard that they were wanting the same as LAE's, I heard they dropped it when they found out what the LAE rates before any increments had been accrued were.
Are the BHL rates lower, more or the same as CHC and how do they compare with the starters rate in the mil?
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 10:12
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Starter rates? Those are of no great interest.

What is being offered to, for instance, Master Aircrew (OR-9) who have been writing the book (and making the film) for this professional sector and whose skills Managed Transition must have surely been designed to harvest just as much as those up the front.

Last edited by jimf671; 10th Sep 2014 at 19:09.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 13:08
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Jim,
You forget that BHL/CHC rear crew have been 'writing the book and making the film' for the last 25+ years as well. It may not be exactly the same book but their way seems to work just as well. Just as the RN book seems to differ from the RAF one.
I'm not sure that the rear crew that already work for BHL would be over happy with an influx of exmil crew, that have been jumped up the pay scale, coming in and telling them 'how it is done'.
I joined BHL, more years ago than I want to remember, from the RAF and thought that knew all there was about operating helicopters (the brain washing worked). I quickly found out that there were other ways that were more efficient than the ones I knew. I learned and acted upon it.
I would not expect to walk into a job and command the top rate and I think that the exmil crews cannot expect too. So the question remains what are they being offered and is it out of line with the going rate for the civ SAR side?
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 14:30
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Sevarg,

I've been in the commercial sector for 3 years now, but I have managed to pack a lot in and I pick things up pretty quick. During that time I have seen several projects (mil & civ) which have taken on former Wg Cdr level consultants and the rear crew issue has been shoved in at the last minute with whatever was left in the budget and when they have finished printing glossy brochures of aircraft and simulator buildings.

The commercial reality is that if you manage to recruit and retain sufficient rearcrew, however unfair the above may be, it is not an issue.

Likewise, you may have views on what the exmil rear crews expectations should be, based on your own extensive experience - all good, no argument.

However - there are a limited number of trained rear crew in the commercial sector, and many are choosing alternative careers. Some will keep flying and if paramedic trained and SAR experienced (an even smaller number) then they represent a very small audience for UK SAR.

There are also a number of countries around the world who value ex-mil UK rear crew (RAF or RN/RM) highly and will pay a commensurate rate. This reduces your pool even further.

So, I would point out the simple principle of supply and demand - if you're awash with suitably trained SAR rear crew then a left over budget is fine... but if the phone isn't ringing then you may have underestimated some of the above.

Good luck to you wherever work may take you mon ami.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 15:52
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Sevarg - you might find that the modern SAR world in the RAF is quite a lot different to when you left in terms of rearcrew professional knowledge and skills required (even if the displayed level of selflessness and bravery hasn't altered, whether civ, RN or RAF).

ISTR the starting rate for Bristow managed transition for rearcrew was circa £35K with an additional £7K for paramedic qual.

Compare that with a FS or MACr radop on £50-60K or a Lt Cdr Observer on £70K plus and you will quickly see why many very experienced and capable SAR rearcrew have had to stay in.

Also look at other contracts like the Shell Brunei and see how many senior operators have gone that way instead.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 18:08
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Originally Posted by Sevarg
You forget that BHL/CHC rear crew have been 'writing the book and making the film' for the last 25+ years as well. It may not be exactly the same book but their way seems to work just as well. ...

[Takes gloves off.]

From the list of current Bristow SAR contracts in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Netherland, Norway, Russia, Trinadad, and the UK, or any previous Bristow contract, through your wealth of experience and inside knowledge, please let us know which of those is CONTRACTED to operate in sub-arctic MOUNTAINOUS terrain in LOW LIGHT conditions?




Originally Posted by Sevarg
... out of line with the going rate for the civ SAR side?
You mean LIMSAR of course.
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 18:39
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Angel

Stornoway perhaps, but for Bristow that could only really be in the last 12 months. Most of the experience in those conditions has been when taskings became more onshore and mountain biased, but that was in the CHC days when the real S92 SAR procedures were developed through genuine experience and knowledge....
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 19:00
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Bristow is a very capable company and I want them to succeed. That will only happen if they get a really good grasp of reality.

None of the Bristow (or CHC) SAR operations has EVER been equivalent to the RN and RAF capability. Mountains and NVIS are the key issues.

Regarding mountains, Bristow and CHC at Stornoway have got away with it for a quarter of a century and done some splendid work because amongst those few who would venture that far north they happened to recruit a significant number of very talented individuals (and, amazingly, DNA seems to play a part). This was luck more than preparedness and planning on the part of Bristow and CHC. It certainly owed absolutely nothing to the DfT and MCA who for decades seem to have been hoping that mountains would simply go away, or turn into something they can understand, like a sand dune. The Technical Requirement in the MAIN contract ITT changed all that.

Regarding NVIS, the current GAP aircraft at Stornoway have a full NVIS fit as required by the MAIN contract. It has been clear since last year that the full capability was going to take a considerable period of time to develop. Enquiries a couple of weeks ago revealed that nobody had seen or heard of a NVIS operation by R100 or been informed of the maturing of that capability. It will not surprise me if it is January 2015 before we see the first operational outing, hopefully allowing them to hit the ground running at Humberside and Inverness in April. Although somewhat impatient to see this capability mature, I respect the need to do it right rather than quick.

The challenge of bringing those two key capabilities to all of the necessary bases across the UK is immense and should not be under-estimated.

I do not know exactly what the contract says but the early stages of the contract process certainly required bidders to demonstrate how they would harvest the talents of those working with the military fleet. Managed Transition is the result. I would like it to be a successful result but there are doubts.


[Carefully replaces gloves.]
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Old 10th Sep 2014, 19:48
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'Indicative' salary ranges given by Bristow were £80-100k for commanders and £30-45k for rearcrew (with the possibility of allowances to supplement these basic salaries). What has actually been offered to individuals is between them and the company. However, the differences between the two ranges is indeed 'indicative' of many things.

Enquiries a couple of weeks ago revealed that nobody had seen or heard of a NVIS operation by R100 or been informed of the maturing of that capability. It will not surprise me if it is January 2015 before we see the first operational outing
I wouldn't hold your breath.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 09:01
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and £30-45k for rearcrew (with the possibility of allowances to supplement these basic salaries).
Those figures lead me to suspect someone in HR looked up Paramedics in the NHS pay spines before going to lunch.....
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 09:15
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Agreed. Rearcrew - despite your important role in the safety and success of this operation, you're less than half as important and worthy as the guy in the right hand seat who may well have less than half the SAR experience of you. Shocking.
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Old 11th Sep 2014, 19:57
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and how much and how long did a civilian helicopter pilot have to pay to get his (ATPL).
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Old 12th Sep 2014, 00:53
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Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
Those figures lead me to suspect someone in HR looked up Paramedics in the NHS pay spines before going to lunch.....
I expect more along the lines of trolley-dolly in a dry-suit.
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Old 14th Sep 2014, 16:56
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Question

Any thoughts on what happens if the referendum goes down the 'Yes' route? Why would the DfT continue to pay for SAR cover in a foreign nation? But, the contract is signed and sealed n'est ce que pas? Can Westminster change it at this stage? Interesting times...
 
Old 14th Sep 2014, 19:28
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Originally Posted by jimf671
I expect more along the lines of trolley-dolly in a dry-suit.
There aren't many trolley dollies on that kind of wage.

To the poster inquiring about post-independence SAR... I suspect the answer is nobody has a f*#!ing clue.

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Old 14th Sep 2014, 19:43
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The chief trolley dolly that was deemed capable of being the rearcrew ops inspector probably is!
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Old 14th Sep 2014, 22:14
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Hmmmm let me think about it, Shetland or Falklands?
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Old 15th Sep 2014, 14:54
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Originally Posted by P3 Bellows
I suspect that if the vote goes "yes", Bristow will struggle to find willing crews for relocation to Sumburgh, Stornoway, Inverness and Prestwick.

Who in their right mind would sell up down south and pay to relocate to iScotland with all the uncertainty of the SNP plan. Or lack of a plan it would seem.

It could be a different matter if the outer Hebrides and Shetland vote to remain with UK or for independence. Then watch the rush to move to Shetland

Worrying times.
Aye, a ten per cent increase in GDP per head is pretty frightening.
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