SASless

So....you are saying you would suffer the agony of being a Co-Pilot for up to Six months so long as you get to keep your same old seat as you have now and become a Captain after six months with the company along with a new Type Conversion thrown in for good measure?

My....you don't want much do you?

I can see the seeds for a very happy crew room.

Baldeep Inminj

Crab, check pm's

[email protected]

And how many of them quite like their pay and conditions offshore and might not want to go to 24 hour SAR shifts, middle of the night callouts, winching in unpleasant and sometimes dangerous positions, night mountains etc etc?

If that is what pacifies the insurers, satisfies the DfT and MCA and ensures that the quality of SAR provision is maintained in UK for the next 10 years then no, I don't think it is asking a lot really. We already spend half our time as co-pilots, even when we are captains so it is hardly agony - it is one of the strengths we bring, competency and currency in both seats.

cyclic

and the North Sea in winter at night is a walk in the park. It happens every night as well during the winter. Relentless would be the word for it. Some of us might be happy to swap it....

jayteeto

SASless, totally agree with you. The opportunities WILL be there for some, but a HUUUUUGE reality check will be needed by a lot of military pilots. When leaving the military, I applied for a job 10 years ago, supplying a very comprehensive CV. The interviewer complemented me on my preperation and interview, then proceeded to tell me that my total lack of civil experience meant I would not be able to hold the position until I completed 6 months as a line pilot. The conditional offer was given, but the basing did not suit me at the time.
Military chaps, do not underestimate the power of unions and seniority lists. You may be good, but good only gets you a foot in the door. If you have realistic expectations, you will soon progress up the ladder, just be patient.

SASless

The only real problem with hiring Military Pilots for civilian flying is convincing them they are no longer in the Military....Rank means squat....and that "Attitude" is everything.....and the way they did it in the Mob holds little water in the new organization they have joined.

No matter how great your abilities and background are from your military days....cop the wrong attitude in the new place and it gets very...very...cold.

Baldeep Inminj

Sasless..spot on old chap. The guys on the SAR force have a HUGE reality check coming. But rather than believe me, Crab, you or anyone else, they just need to go and have an interview with Mr Bristow. All will rapidly become clear. If they want SAR, they need to leave asap and can ecpect a good couple of years on the rigs before even being considered for SAR.

I am in a position to know this.

Macaco Norte

In a position to know? Where are Bristow currently recriuting?

[email protected]

Baldeep - thanks for the pm - but if what you are saying is true then Bristows are not playing fair with the MoD and DfT which seems unlikely. Without the managed transition, the only option is mass PVR which will screw UK mil SAR for its last 3 years - the Govt don't want that and the MoD don't want that.

Jayteeto - I fully take your point regarding the jobs market but the SAR transition is a unique situation where the contractor can't allow a sudden drop in capability as the milsar machine grinds to a halt - they can have as many guys (ex-mil or not) working offshore as they want but that just provides drivers airframe, not SAR-current pilots.

Unless some mil crews (especially rearcrew) are taken on directly then there will (unless a new civ SAR school is being setup now to run a whole load of guys through in the next 2 years) be a problem since 80% of current UK SAR crews are presently wearing green - where are Bristows going to get current, competent SAR crews from?

If they are relying on ex-SH guys who have gone to the N Sea claiming SAR experience from Afghan and the like, they will be very embarrassed once the first callouts occur.

Sasless - what is wrong with a professional attitude? Surely an employer wants the best qualified and experienced employees to do the jobs if they are to provide a service safely and efficiently. There are very few rank-concious members of the RAF SAR Force - the union men and those 'time in the company' types are far more likely to cause friction in crewrooms than your average mil SAR boy or girl.

Al-bert

Sasless,
rank never meant very much in RAF SH or SAR. It's differant from what I saw of US army helos, and our RN and Army of course! RAF helos were always devoid of mil bull****, but that might have changed

Baldeep Inminj

Macaco

I clearly said that rather than believe me people should speak to Bristow and get the facts for themselves.
Your supposition will not help anyone. I support the mil guys, and I want them,flying SAR, thats why I posted some facts.

Simply ask Bristows.

snakepit

Baldeep
But the first "fact" you posted was incorrect. Its 250 hours on type not 500. So by all means suggest people go to Bristow just don't add your personal case into the mix and assume it will be the same for everyone.

Baldeep Inminj

Snake,

Good spot...almost. 250 will get you in the door, but 500 is req. for an op captain. They will make up the extra 250 hrs on the north sea.

As I have said, speak to Bristows. In any event, 250 on type still rules out all the ex mil guys. They'll be co's at best, and captaincy will be dead mans shoes. Not like RAF sar where captains fly as co's...a civvy company won't pay a captains salary to a co if they don't have to. Once they have enough captains, they have enough captains.

One35

From the Bristow website...

This is going to be a problem for many, not just the MilSAR guys. Although there are a fair few captains currently flying crew-change who may have the 500 hrs previous SAR experience, most will be operating the EC225 / AS332 L/L2. The S92 presence is increasing but it's still the minority on the North Sea. And as for the AW189....

SASless

Crab,

Professional performance and attitude is what the job calls for....without any single uniform colour being designated. Likewise, the Military guys and gals need to remember they are LEAVING one home for another and must be happy with the colour of the curtains until they have been in place long enough to get their feet under the table.

As in so many other things in helicopter flying....there is sometimes more than a single right answer to a question....and that is what has to be accepted by the newcomer. If there is a better way to do something then that can be worked out over time.

As the goal for all is to aid folks in distress....that should make it a lot easier to find the common ground without folks staking claim to having the only answer. As the Bristow SAR Operation has historically drawn from the Military...things should not be all that different where it matters....in the Air.

Admin policies and other mundane stuff will be different but the standards will not be. There definitely shall be a new set of "Bosses" to answer to with different personalities than one might be used to dealing with....for sure the system works much differently.

One thing that has not been discussed is what happens if Bristow splits off the SAR Operation into its own Business Unit and thus separates the SAR from the Offshore Business. That would make for a much easier way of transitioning Military SAR Qualified Crews into the Civilian SAR Structure.

PHI in the USA did that very thing with its EMS Operation as the Offshore and EMS work was so different both Operationally and Administratively.

If I were the Mandarin in Charge....that is what I would do.

Anyone want to make a wager how long it takes for that to happen?

Macaco Norte

SAS,
I'm sure SARBU will emerge, its what CHC already do and makes perfect sense as it would clearly define budgets.

Ian Corrigible

Bristow may have committed to a higher figure for UK SAR, but FYI Sikorsky puts the official S-92 fleet OA figure for 2012 at 95.0% (vs. 94.9% for 2011).

I/C

Baldeep Inminj

Pretty rubbish troll if I am asking people to get the facts for themselves! Tell you what, ignore me, sit back, and wait for the managed transition. I'm sure you'll be fine

jimf671

That figure will be for a quite different operational tempo of course.

I accept that 99 is an exageration. I did see a figure of 98% somewhere. Requirement or target, I cannot remember.

Norma Snockers

So am I, thank you