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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 26th Apr 2015, 16:14
  #1901 (permalink)  
 
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you admit to having zero hours on the Sea King yet feel qualified to opine about the quality of CRM on that platform. Priceless.
It may be Priceless but it is no different to those casting their opinions of Civy SAR having never worked on an aircraft type or even for those companies in question.
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 16:19
  #1902 (permalink)  
snaggletooth
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Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Old 26th Apr 2015, 16:21
  #1903 (permalink)  
 
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On a brighter (hopefully) note...

Anyone know any details on the All White AW189 that flew into Norwich last night from Dyce? Reg: I-LCIB, is it another SAR cab prior to a visit to the paint shop.
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 17:20
  #1904 (permalink)  
 
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Norfolk - it would be interesting to know if it is a CAA thing or a company policy - either way it hasn't been thought out - it might protect the pilots but what about the rear crew? Unless everyone in contact with the casualty is in the 'ebola-style' sealed suits there will always be a risk and that kit is not standard on a SAR cab.

The problem with meningitis is that often the diagnosis is made late and in a child that can mean that every minute between diagnosis and correct treatment is vital - it tends to cause infection in the limbs first if I remember correctly.

Are we about to go down a path where the crew are not allowed to be put at any risk when performing their duties? It certainly doesn't sound like SAR as I know it.
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 18:19
  #1905 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by shetlander View Post
On a brighter (hopefully) note...

Anyone know any details on the All White AW189 that flew into Norwich last night from Dyce? Reg: I-LCIB, is it another SAR cab prior to a visit to the paint shop.

Only one SAR cab was due to be made in Italy and therefore carry an Italian delivery registration. That one was G-MCGM (formerly I-EASN). The next one was G-MCGN made at Yeovil. G-MCGO to G-MCGT are already on the register with Yeovil serial numbers.

There is an AW Demo aircraft I-LCIH that had been flying around North Sea oil & gas customers months ago. Could it have been that one?
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 20:03
  #1906 (permalink)  
 
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According to Norwich movements;

Display Movements

21:37 I-LCIB Agusta AW189 ARR White overall with AW titles and red regn

So you may be right as it seems to be White with AW Tiles.
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Old 26th Apr 2015, 21:26
  #1907 (permalink)  
 
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The next one was G-MCGN made at Yeovil
They will be different sizes than the ones made in Italy
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 05:03
  #1908 (permalink)  
 
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Is that like the garage doors they used to make - same jigs but different fits?
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 09:36
  #1909 (permalink)  
 
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We had to ground all our Pumas in about 1973 so that all the doors, doghouses, etc, etc could be refitted back to their original airframes because none of them fitted other aircraft.

When they were building the Nimrods the Comet fuselages being delivered varied in length by up to two feet. That made it quite difficult to strap the MRA bit on underneath.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 13:31
  #1910 (permalink)  
 
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What's this I hear about Bristow turning down night jobs due to lack of NVG inland?
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 14:10
  #1911 (permalink)  
 
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Oh TC....you'll go to hell for that one..
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 17:42
  #1912 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why MR are beating their gums over this. Dry your eyes Princess... Any Team Leader worth their salt will understand that SAFETY will always take precedence - especially in TRAINING scenarios

Search helicopter operator slammed by rescue leader over training
Helicopter operator Bristow slammed by Cairngorm Mountain Rescue leader | Aberdeen & North | News

Last edited by edwardspannerhands; 27th Apr 2015 at 17:43. Reason: Spool cheker!
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 18:41
  #1913 (permalink)  
 
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So Bristows are using the "triggered lightning" excuse in the SAR world now are they ?? .. I laughed my ass off when I saw that on the News. Bristows playing the safety card ?? .. They have played that a few times offshore and it always seems to be when our flight is already very delayed. or they wont fly to a rig that another operator will. Spent my last three years in the RAF in the ARCC and the years since offshore dealing with them a lot.

I am just happy a lot of the crews are ex military. Thats the only thing that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about them having the SAR contract.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 19:12
  #1914 (permalink)  
 
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Although it seems from both the caa and met office websites and studies, that triggered lightning is almost exclusively a North Sea, over-water phenomenon with no recorded events in the mountainous areas.

Perhaps someone being a little over-cautious and never heard the adage - 'if it ain't raining, it ain't training'
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 19:25
  #1915 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps someone being a little over-cautious and never heard the adage - 'if it ain't raining, it ain't training'
Crab, don't be a prat all your life. Perhaps you should give Bond Helicopters in Aberdeen a call and see how they are getting on with their insurance claim for an S92 that was written off just before Christmas due to triggered lightning.

It is not an over water phenomenon. There have been the most strikes of triggered lightning over the North Sea because that is where most of the helicopters fly but it is by no means an over water issue. Why do I think you knew that anyway.......

Is it really worth the risk of writing off a multi million pound helicopter just so an MR exercise can take place. No. But they will take the risk for an operational flight and that is as it should be.

P3
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 19:27
  #1916 (permalink)  
 
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There should be no surprise whatsoever that the appetite for risk and the manner in which risk is managed has shifted as a result of changing from a military to a commercial SAR provider. Sometimes this will be a good thing, sometimes it won't. It all depends on your perspective (casualty on the hill v aircraft insurer, for example). Whereas lines have often been blurred in the past you can bet your bottom dollar there will no longer be any ambiguity.

Unfortunately none of this is quantifiable so political statements that herald the new service as a 'better' service are impossible to disprove. Likewise, certain parties may argue that some military SAR missions in the past flirted with unnecessary levels of risk. Again, impossible to prove. The debate will continue ad infinitum.
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 19:55
  #1917 (permalink)  
 
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It is not an over water phenomenon.
Really?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2561/20130...esentation.pdf
Investigating and predicting helicopter-triggered lightning strikes - Met Office

And in the busy North Sea, there are only 1 -3 reports of triggered lightning each year! You've more chance of winning the lottery!

Perhaps you should give Bond Helicopters in Aberdeen a call and see how they are getting on with their insurance claim for an S92 that was written off just before Christmas due to triggered lightning.
And just how long has Aberdeen been in the mountains?

Perhaps you could do some research before you start name-calling - again!
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 20:39
  #1918 (permalink)  
 
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Crab, 1 question then...... Why do the Met Office produce a triggered lightning forecast that covers the overland area and not stop forecasting at the coast?

Answer that if you can

PS perhaps I should have said "it's not JUST and over water phenomena"
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 21:06
  #1919 (permalink)  
 
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PS perhaps I should have said "it's not JUST an over water phenomena"
I think most of us knew that's what you meant. It's pretty obvious!
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Old 27th Apr 2015, 21:29
  #1920 (permalink)  
 
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Crab, 1 question then...... Why do the Met Office produce a triggered lightning forecast that covers the overland area and not stop forecasting at the coast?
Perhaps because it is feasible, unlikely but feasible, that the conditions that will give the remote possibility of triggered lightning over the North Sea might, at a stretch drift inland.

Not ones to be caught out (after the promised barbeque summer and the 80's hurricane) they would rather forecast a possibility (no matter how remote) that triggered lightning may be encountered (despite the lack of reports or other evidence), the Met Office are just covering their a*ses so no-one can blame them if it does happen.

A bit like Prob 30 of TS which means prob 70 of no TS.

If Bristow had just said the weather was unsuitable for MR training it would have been much simpler.
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