UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread
Originally Posted by [email protected]
... remember 139 and 189 don't have ...
Originally Posted by [email protected]
... I keep hearing negative reports about many aspects of the new service which I do balance against the fact that they are still rescuing people.
I could give you negative reports from CivSAR recently and going back a quarter of a century if I thought that there was any point when I know that people have taken things on-board and set on improvement and, as you say, balance against the fact that they are still rescuing people.
Likewise in the MilSAR, how many broken aircraft, bad comms, new boys making wise but restrictive decisions about their own capabilities, and my all-time favourite, telling us they had to leave the exercise early for an appointment elsewhere and then being spotted having lunch in a nice hotel (a bit obvious with something yellow occupying a large part of the car park visible from miles away).
Key to what is happening just now is new boys making wise but operationally restrictive decisions about their own capabilities. The knowledge pool for the Westland Sea King under military flying rules is immense but the knowledge pool for S-92A under CAP 999 and various OSR and so on is still small. Likewise, the knowledge pool for AW189 under the same regime is as yet non-existent and by Q3 2016 will still be mainly maritime.
They don't have RIPS - I thought that was reasonably clear - obviously I need to work on my syntax.
Leaving an exercise is hardly making a restrictive decision about the crews capabilities. calling in a flight from the other side of the country to do a job in your own patch, is.
You keep forgetting that the whole concept of the new SAR service was that it would be no less capable - not by the end of the contract but at the beginning. The experience levels are rather variable; there is no LCR to CR syllabus and training budget to address that and the amount of training in role on the new aircraft seems thin.
Leaving an exercise is hardly making a restrictive decision about the crews capabilities. calling in a flight from the other side of the country to do a job in your own patch, is.
You keep forgetting that the whole concept of the new SAR service was that it would be no less capable - not by the end of the contract but at the beginning. The experience levels are rather variable; there is no LCR to CR syllabus and training budget to address that and the amount of training in role on the new aircraft seems thin.
I have no idea about the 139 spec but 189 LIPS is certified, and 189 FIPS in the loop for cert this winter. LIPS (w/o rotor heat?) is fitted to BIH FISAR aircraft, and the cert conditions are reportedly pretty good.
My main concern regarding training is the long term future for the lads down the back. I still believe that the CAA has missed an opportunity to create a world-class system for SAR rearcrew by having it as a licensed aviation trade that would have produced the sort of standards that MilSAR have developed across generations of bouncing winchies off boats and rocks.
My main concern regarding training is the long term future for the lads down the back. I still believe that the CAA has missed an opportunity to create a world-class system for SAR rearcrew by having it as a licensed aviation trade that would have produced the sort of standards that MilSAR have developed across generations of bouncing winchies off boats and rocks.
Jeepys - ISTR that LIPS is no better than a Sea King icing protection and that there were lots of problems with the cables in the blades with the FIPS - perhaps that has been sorted out now.
Still no comeback about some pilots SAR and glass cockpit experience and a struggling chief pilot though...
Still no comeback about some pilots SAR and glass cockpit experience and a struggling chief pilot though...
Inverness? Modern world response from Prestwick, Lydd or Caernarfon.
(West coast aircraft with deicing up over the top and let-down over the sea.)
Sorry mate, but the question that might have to be asked is what were the military doing that prevented tasks.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
... remember 139 and 189 don't have ...
Originally Posted by jimf671
What?
Rescue pilot 'rolled' helicopter to avoid USAF F15 jets - BBC News
I/C
Sufficient manoeuvrability to 'mix it' with F-15s
Civilian pilot says the risk was high; mil pilot says risk was negligible.
I've read this sort of comment a lot in reports so it does make you wonder.
What were they doing "just" avoiding a SAR op for anyway? Rubbernecking?
I wonder if the background of the airprox board Chairman had anything to do with the fact that there was low or no risk of collision.
Civilian pilot says the risk was high; mil pilot says risk was negligible.
I've read this sort of comment a lot in reports so it does make you wonder.
What were they doing "just" avoiding a SAR op for anyway? Rubbernecking?
Civilian pilot says the risk was high; mil pilot says risk was negligible.
I've read this sort of comment a lot in reports so it does make you wonder.
What were they doing "just" avoiding a SAR op for anyway? Rubbernecking?
Quite.
From NOTAM (TDA) as quoted in AirProx2015121: "PILOTS ARE URGENTLY REQUESTED NOT TO FLY IN OR NEAR THE AREA WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF AERONAUTICAL RESCUE AND COORDINATION CENTRE"
Jeepys, it is the lack of real SAR experience that I find worrying (and the fact that some appear to have been less than truthful about that).
It was Bristow who were specifying glass cockpit time and they made a big deal about it but most people (even me) get used to it very quickly.
They knew the TDA was there and their route avoided it - don't see a problem, especially since the Helo wasn't in the TDA at the time of the incident.
Same again - how nice, I seem to have my very own internet troll.............
It was Bristow who were specifying glass cockpit time and they made a big deal about it but most people (even me) get used to it very quickly.
What were they doing "just" avoiding a SAR op for anyway? Rubbernecking
Same again - how nice, I seem to have my very own internet troll.............
If you read the airprox http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/docs/423/2015121.pdf you will see that no-one else thought it was a problem either - someone being a bit precious perhaps?
Just checking in now again again Crab to see how sour your grapes are. Don't really have much time for trolling unless, of course, I have downed tools due to FTL limits or icing restrictions and have to go on holiday to spend all the money that Bristow are paying me. How are things in the Corporate/Offshore centre of excellence that you seem to be running these days?
The NOTAM does say "in or near".
And surely if you are in a F-15 doing tactical dodging about stuff at XXX knots through the corries it must be possible to imagine that you present a far greater risk than say a C-130 lumbering past at 5500 feet.
And surely if you are in a F-15 doing tactical dodging about stuff at XXX knots through the corries it must be possible to imagine that you present a far greater risk than say a C-130 lumbering past at 5500 feet.
If you want a bigger area of safety you just make the TDA bigger.
The crews saw each other, the TCAS noted their presence and there was a very low risk to either - the heli pilot just overreacted, the estimate was no closer than 500' vertically - you could have that IMC in a procedural hold and no-one airproxes that.
A 4-ship formation takes up a lot more airspace and is less manoeuvreable than a C130.
Same again - Not just a troll then - an ocean-going **** as well - I bet they love you in the crew room on shift please feel free to fill in the missing letters
The crews saw each other, the TCAS noted their presence and there was a very low risk to either - the heli pilot just overreacted, the estimate was no closer than 500' vertically - you could have that IMC in a procedural hold and no-one airproxes that.
A 4-ship formation takes up a lot more airspace and is less manoeuvreable than a C130.
Same again - Not just a troll then - an ocean-going **** as well - I bet they love you in the crew room on shift
please feel free to fill in the missing letters