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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

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UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread

Old 18th Nov 2015, 20:11
  #2401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK
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I'd be surprised if there were any actual limits for sloping ground in a civilian RFM - maybe a recommendation in the Ops manual.
Why is that? Oh yea, civvies no cok all about operating helicopters.

Pavlov
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 20:39
  #2402 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear - I was wrong - but not for the reason P3 automatically surmises
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 21:17
  #2403 (permalink)  
 
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No MG

That's because they are too thick skinned to be embarrassed
Dartmouth training and Pusser's Ego issued!
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 21:20
  #2404 (permalink)  
 
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Quote;

I don't think wet and windy is exclusive territory for SAR helos.
No it's not. Landing in ad-hoc field locations on NVG in weather well below most operators' weather limits is somewhat challenging though.

The guys were a little caught out. Cut them some slack, most of us have been there if not somewhere close. I don't remember too many civvy SAR types jumping on Prune every time there was a slightly 'embarrassing' incident for military SAR.

I think people are getting a touch bored with the sour grapes from some quarters. Time to move on.
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 21:23
  #2405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Variable Load View Post
From Section 1 of the RFM:
Slope landing limits are 10 nose up or down slope, 13 left or right side of the aircraft up slope.

And a contract requirement at Schedule 2.1 (Specification), 4.1.1.1.2, for 10 degrees in any direction.
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 21:25
  #2406 (permalink)  
 
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The stats are out today!

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...ter-statistics

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...september-2015
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 21:56
  #2407 (permalink)  
 
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Llamaman - not sure why you think it is sour grapes when I make a comment on something someone else has posted - perhaps you need to move on and revisit things I have posted with a slightly more open mind

Jim - pretty stat-tastic - excellent use of colour and pie charts
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 22:23
  #2408 (permalink)  
 
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Quote;

Llamaman - not sure why you think it is sour grapes when I make a comment on something someone else has posted - perhaps you need to move on and revisit things I have posted with a slightly more open mind
Crab,

I'm not sure if moving on and revisiting are compatible?
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Old 18th Nov 2015, 22:25
  #2409 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
... ... Jim - pretty stat-tastic - excellent use of colour and pie charts

Yes, the DfT probably weren't sure if helicopter guys could do proper graphs and tables.
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Old 19th Nov 2015, 06:41
  #2410 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not sure if moving on and revisiting are compatible?
So you can't change your mind about something and see something old in a new light??
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Old 19th Nov 2015, 06:42
  #2411 (permalink)  
 
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Jim - no indication of training hours flown though?
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Old 19th Nov 2015, 19:06
  #2412 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Jim - no indication of training hours flown though?
Why would you expect that? Rescues, searches and transfers are the outputs the British public and their servants at the DfT require and there are those numbers in glorious colour just as they were in the DASA reports in glorious black and white.

Some details like 'persons moved' that appeared in DASA reports are absent but not a great loss. The important thing is that reporting of key data about the work of DfT contractor SAR aircraft that has been absent since 1988 and criticised within the civil service and publicly since at least 1998 (NAO) is now to be regularly published in the public domain. Result!

The previous absence of public reporting has been widely and repeatedly criticised over the years. I can claim to have done my bit by raising the subject within the DfT/HMCG chain of command at up to AD level, with MPs, on the internet and in articles. What have you done about it Crab?

If you need more information Crab then please follow the instruction at the following address.
https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/official-information/
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Old 19th Nov 2015, 23:43
  #2413 (permalink)  
 
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Doesn't apply to SAR jobs.

LZ
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 09:47
  #2414 (permalink)  
 
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Never let the true facts detract from a good story.
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 13:37
  #2415 (permalink)  
 
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Jim, the remark about training hours was meant to be tongue in cheek - maybe I should have use a smiley.

No, DASA didn't publish training hours since we always had so many available it wasn't an issue.

Now that training is limited and all the stats are available, why shouldn't they also be in the public domain?

There are a contracted number of training hours for the new SAR service so it would be useful to know if they are being exceeded (because the crews need the training) and, if so, who is paying for them.
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 13:38
  #2416 (permalink)  
 
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Latest news from the Cave Rescue Organisation. Pictures clearly show the side-slope, which must be very hard to judge from above, in the dark.


Helicopter Rescued | The Cave Rescue Organisation


Helicopter Away! | The Cave Rescue Organisation
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 13:43
  #2417 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, looks a lot more than 13 degrees!

It is difficult to judge, even in daylight, which is why you use your AI to assess when to abort the landing.
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 13:55
  #2418 (permalink)  
 
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Just out of interest, what is left of the RAF SAR Force has been rather busy lately.
RAF And Royal Navy In Dramatic Falklands Rescue | Forces TV
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 14:02
  #2419 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed Crab, hard to put a number to it just by looking. 13 degrees sounds uncomfortably high for a side-slope - it's about 1 in 5.5


And I think I would have moved the crane before take-off!
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Old 20th Nov 2015, 18:45
  #2420 (permalink)  
 
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"Just out of interest, what is left of the RAF SAR Force has been rather busy lately.
RAF And Royal Navy In Dramatic Falklands Rescue | Forces TV"

Just to add, Bristow were also involved with their S92 assets but didn't get a mention.
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