YEP. IT'S FLORIDA. HOG WINS.
Thread Starter
YEP. IT'S FLORIDA. HOG WINS.
ST. LUCIE COUNTY — Massad Ayoob said he didn't have time to think of dying, as the small helicopter he was in plunged.
Seconds before, the internationally known firearms expert and his hunting companion Jonathan Strayer were 100 feet up in the air, intent on following a wild hog they spotted below.
The "oinker had run under the canopy of some tall pines," Ayoob recalled Monday, when, suddenly, the helicopter engine lost power near the Okeechobee County landfill about 8 a.m.
The trip started as an adventure and as a test of marksmanship for the two Live Oak pals: a .44-caliber Magnum revolver in a moving aircraft versus a quick-moving hog, an animal ranchers consider to be a nuisance because they dig up the ground, destroying farmland.
They arranged the hunting trip, taking off from private land, and hunting on private property at the Okeechobee-St. Lucie county line. There are no restrictions on hog-hunting on private land, said Carli Segelson, spokeswoman for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.
The crash happened north of the landfill and just inside St. Lucie County and west of Adams Ranch near a private landing strip.
The group was only in the air a few minutes when the helicopter sputtered.
The rotor blades hit tall pine trees, fracturing the blades and sending them and wood splinters flying.
Instinctively, the 64-year-old Ayood bent down, fearing the whirling debris would shoot at him through the small clear, plexiglass cockpit in which he, Strayer, 46, and pilot William Harward, 55, of Miami, were huddled.
With the blades gone, the aircraft could only drop into the wooded terrain below.
His emotions churned, Ayood said, during 10 seconds of terror when they realized they were going down.
The aircraft ended upside down as it crashed, bashing the cockpit dashboard against the pilot's helmet-covered head.
"We ended up nose down and kinda upside down" in the cockpit, Ayoob said. It was only then — as they unbuckled their four-point harnesses — that there was time to be scared "and grateful to be alive," he said.
They had "cuts, bruises, pulled muscles and stiffness, but since none of the stiffness involves rigor mortis, ain't none of us complaining," he said. "All of our body parts were there."
Somehow through it all, Strayer held onto his Magnum in his right hand.
"You don't want something like that floating around" during a fall, Strayer said Monday.
"We had some angels riding with us."
With the shock behind them and knowing that all of them are OK, Ayoob joked on Monday: "Who knew (the hogs) had anti aircraft capabilities."
Both Ayoob and Strayer credit the pilot with getting them to the ground alive.
"I give the pilot all the credit in the world," Ayoob said. Harward couldn't be reached Monday for comment.
As they staggered from the wreckage, they found one of their cell phones and phoned the aircraft owner, Kenneth Fabel, for help. Then they walked several hundred yards to meet Fabel who took them to a hospital in Okeechobee County for treatment, according to a St. Lucie County Sheriff's report. Fabel declined to comment on Monday.
"We were sopping up blood on the way to the hospital," Ayoob said.
After just a few hours, they were released.
Later Saturday, Ayoob said, Strayer joked with him about buying a lottery ticket that didn't win in the Saturday night drawing.
"We used up enough luck for one day," Strayer said.
Officials with the federal Aviation Administration on Monday said they are investigating why the helicopter engine slowed and the aircraft fell. They expect it to take about two weeks to know the probable cause of the crash, said spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen.
Ayoob is a widely known firearms and self-defense instructor who founded and headed up the Lethal Force Institute in New Hampshire from 1981 to 2009. Since then, he has been an instructor with the Massad Ayoob Group and has written books and articles on self-defense.
Through the years he has been through some harrowing experiences, including some close calls in automobile accidents.
This was his first near-death experience in a helicopter.
"I got my daily requirement of adrenaline" during the crash, he said.
Seconds before, the internationally known firearms expert and his hunting companion Jonathan Strayer were 100 feet up in the air, intent on following a wild hog they spotted below.
The "oinker had run under the canopy of some tall pines," Ayoob recalled Monday, when, suddenly, the helicopter engine lost power near the Okeechobee County landfill about 8 a.m.
The trip started as an adventure and as a test of marksmanship for the two Live Oak pals: a .44-caliber Magnum revolver in a moving aircraft versus a quick-moving hog, an animal ranchers consider to be a nuisance because they dig up the ground, destroying farmland.
They arranged the hunting trip, taking off from private land, and hunting on private property at the Okeechobee-St. Lucie county line. There are no restrictions on hog-hunting on private land, said Carli Segelson, spokeswoman for the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.
The crash happened north of the landfill and just inside St. Lucie County and west of Adams Ranch near a private landing strip.
The group was only in the air a few minutes when the helicopter sputtered.
The rotor blades hit tall pine trees, fracturing the blades and sending them and wood splinters flying.
Instinctively, the 64-year-old Ayood bent down, fearing the whirling debris would shoot at him through the small clear, plexiglass cockpit in which he, Strayer, 46, and pilot William Harward, 55, of Miami, were huddled.
With the blades gone, the aircraft could only drop into the wooded terrain below.
His emotions churned, Ayood said, during 10 seconds of terror when they realized they were going down.
The aircraft ended upside down as it crashed, bashing the cockpit dashboard against the pilot's helmet-covered head.
"We ended up nose down and kinda upside down" in the cockpit, Ayoob said. It was only then — as they unbuckled their four-point harnesses — that there was time to be scared "and grateful to be alive," he said.
They had "cuts, bruises, pulled muscles and stiffness, but since none of the stiffness involves rigor mortis, ain't none of us complaining," he said. "All of our body parts were there."
Somehow through it all, Strayer held onto his Magnum in his right hand.
"You don't want something like that floating around" during a fall, Strayer said Monday.
"We had some angels riding with us."
With the shock behind them and knowing that all of them are OK, Ayoob joked on Monday: "Who knew (the hogs) had anti aircraft capabilities."
Both Ayoob and Strayer credit the pilot with getting them to the ground alive.
"I give the pilot all the credit in the world," Ayoob said. Harward couldn't be reached Monday for comment.
As they staggered from the wreckage, they found one of their cell phones and phoned the aircraft owner, Kenneth Fabel, for help. Then they walked several hundred yards to meet Fabel who took them to a hospital in Okeechobee County for treatment, according to a St. Lucie County Sheriff's report. Fabel declined to comment on Monday.
"We were sopping up blood on the way to the hospital," Ayoob said.
After just a few hours, they were released.
Later Saturday, Ayoob said, Strayer joked with him about buying a lottery ticket that didn't win in the Saturday night drawing.
"We used up enough luck for one day," Strayer said.
Officials with the federal Aviation Administration on Monday said they are investigating why the helicopter engine slowed and the aircraft fell. They expect it to take about two weeks to know the probable cause of the crash, said spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen.
Ayoob is a widely known firearms and self-defense instructor who founded and headed up the Lethal Force Institute in New Hampshire from 1981 to 2009. Since then, he has been an instructor with the Massad Ayoob Group and has written books and articles on self-defense.
Through the years he has been through some harrowing experiences, including some close calls in automobile accidents.
This was his first near-death experience in a helicopter.
"I got my daily requirement of adrenaline" during the crash, he said.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 433 Likes
on
228 Posts
Probably a SPAM 14. 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hiller UH12B
True, Darwin genetics I think.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In other parts of the country, it's often spelled FloriDUH!
And in Texas, since hunting from helicopters has been legalized, there have been at least 3 fatal accidents involving hog slaughter. I expect more.
And in Texas, since hunting from helicopters has been legalized, there have been at least 3 fatal accidents involving hog slaughter. I expect more.
Last edited by Gomer Pylot; 29th Jan 2013 at 15:26.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
two feral hog hunters
Perhaps some decent AOC provisions, like the pilot being mustering proficient before commencing shooting operations would be a good start, along with a good 'platform' license for the shooter.
I suppose the FAA does have a set of standards to cover mustering and low level training as we do.
An exceptionally good move would be to remove the 'feral hog hunters' from the cabin of the aircraft and replace them with professionally trained crew.
Hate to see those stateside mob overtaking our hard won Darwinian stupidity level in low level work. Ours is slowing down though as the gene pool lowers.
cheers tet
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There seem to be parallels here with the NZ deer hunting scene of the '80s. What is it about hunting from helos that seems to bring on such accidents? Target fixation? Excess testosterone (Rambo syndrome?). Competitiveness? Attractiveness to cowboys/mavericks/wannabe Vietnam Walts?
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 5th Feb 2013 at 13:34.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Topendtorque, you suppose wrong. AFAIK, nobody uses helicopters for mustering in the US. No need for them. Our cattle are regularly fed, and to muster them the owners just drive up in a pickup truck and honk the horn. The cattle come running. Thus there is no need for FAA regulation of mustering, since it doesn't exist. Perhaps someone somewhere does it, but it's certainly not common.
Very common for mustang mustering though.
"The BLM’s preferred option includes using helicopters, which the agency has used for decades to gather mustangs around the West, despite protests from wild horse advocates."
"The BLM’s preferred option includes using helicopters, which the agency has used for decades to gather mustangs around the West, despite protests from wild horse advocates."
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Gomer, I've only seen a couple of examples and they were more in the line of satisfying a fetish rather than professional work.One was a 206 in Texas which after all is a state where big is big so they say, but their average cow ranch is around 14 head. Where I come from the average cattle station is 4500 head and staffing levels run at one per thousand head or less, so yeah machinery usage is high.The average pilot will probably muster 70,000 head per year in a thousand hours.
I do remember a pro outfit in Long Beach a long time ago, with a G5A.
What then will regulate the safety of your hog killers,? Certainly you have no shortage of quality low level ag pilots who with ten times the number of their cousins in Oz have only the same number of total accidents pa - quite impressive.
Over here even with a private land owner wanting to chase his own cows with his own privately employed private license holder is supposed to have a mustering rating, which of course comes after the low level rating.
There's not a lot to the training but the elements of 1) over pitching / decision / recovery or not / and how, and 2) downwind or self generated vortice entrapment / awareness of / keeping away from / recovery from , are probably the most important life savers if taught correctly.
All low level pilots (perhaps including HEMS) could be mandated to do a wires course I guess as over here you have an ag AG rep body, that would run them?
oh yes thanks Gemini, posted while I was dithering.
I had forgotten about your mad horses, and I have seen a couple of you-tubes of wild cow capture, with lariats and all sorts of fancy ticks, a la the deer capture but possibly madder. Horse mustering is the most dangerous by far, very fast work.
I do remember a pro outfit in Long Beach a long time ago, with a G5A.
What then will regulate the safety of your hog killers,? Certainly you have no shortage of quality low level ag pilots who with ten times the number of their cousins in Oz have only the same number of total accidents pa - quite impressive.
Over here even with a private land owner wanting to chase his own cows with his own privately employed private license holder is supposed to have a mustering rating, which of course comes after the low level rating.
There's not a lot to the training but the elements of 1) over pitching / decision / recovery or not / and how, and 2) downwind or self generated vortice entrapment / awareness of / keeping away from / recovery from , are probably the most important life savers if taught correctly.
All low level pilots (perhaps including HEMS) could be mandated to do a wires course I guess as over here you have an ag AG rep body, that would run them?
oh yes thanks Gemini, posted while I was dithering.
I had forgotten about your mad horses, and I have seen a couple of you-tubes of wild cow capture, with lariats and all sorts of fancy ticks, a la the deer capture but possibly madder. Horse mustering is the most dangerous by far, very fast work.
Last edited by topendtorque; 6th Feb 2013 at 20:33. Reason: prompt form gemini
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Over here
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The regulation will be done through Darwin Awards, not through the FAA.
Don't confuse average herd size with actual ranch herds. There are tens of thousands of 'ranches' which are only a few acres and have only a few head of cattle, to satisfy city-slicker drugstore cowboys who just dabble in ranching. The real ranches are tens of thousands of acres with huge cattle herds, but have not seen the need for helicopters for roundups.
Don't confuse average herd size with actual ranch herds. There are tens of thousands of 'ranches' which are only a few acres and have only a few head of cattle, to satisfy city-slicker drugstore cowboys who just dabble in ranching. The real ranches are tens of thousands of acres with huge cattle herds, but have not seen the need for helicopters for roundups.
Last edited by Gomer Pylot; 7th Feb 2013 at 13:35.