Inadvertent IMC question
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I have synthetic vision installed in an EC120 as part of the Flymap system. I have used it in good VMC both "down south" - where it is not shown to its best effect because we don't have much high terrain to worry about - and when flying through the Scottish hills & glens (valley) - where it is quite impressive; particularly when flying along a glen.
It might indeed be an additional help during inadvertant IMC but I have no intention of finding out.
It might indeed be an additional help during inadvertant IMC but I have no intention of finding out.
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A good idea to cope with IEIC is to start making contingency plans as soon as you recognize that you are in deteriorating weather over difficult terrain. If you are flying as part of a crew, you can pre-brief what you are going to do....IF For example: "If we go IMC, I am going to maintain 60kts, and carry out a level turn to the right onto our escape heading of xxx." As part of a formation, IEIC actions should always be included as part of the formation brief before you depart. Its always easier to make difficult decisions before you are maxed-out!
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Mmmmmm ....
... the MSA in most parts of PNG is usually around 19-20k in anycase ...
Gee Sav ... your playing with the truth a bit ... thats not how I remember it ...
Google Earth reveals all .....
Yes there are some high bits .. BUT 19-20 K ft MSA is a bit dramatic !!
... the MSA in most parts of PNG is usually around 19-20k in anycase ...
Gee Sav ... your playing with the truth a bit ... thats not how I remember it ...
Google Earth reveals all .....
Yes there are some high bits .. BUT 19-20 K ft MSA is a bit dramatic !!
Remember being in PNG in Mosby in a Baron with an Aussie bloke on the way to Madang.
He asked the local FOI about IFR.
The old codger looked over his specs and said, "can you maintain 17,000' on one engine?
Conversation end.
He asked the local FOI about IFR.
The old codger looked over his specs and said, "can you maintain 17,000' on one engine?
Conversation end.
"Just a pilot"
Sometimes survival is the best outcome you an hope for.
The scenario as presented has significant risk factors that will most likely destroy the aircraft and kill the crew.
A VFR pilot IIMC is probably going to lose control. Continuing into rising terrain below a safe altitude, without possibility of a vfr turnaround and deteriorating to IMC weather (especially with the rocks 8 seconds ahead- 120 kts over .5 km)
is an immediate life threatening situation. Land now, while you have power and control.
Pick a place where your least likely to catastrophically lose control of the helicopter in that process, like rolling down a mountain. The aircraft will suffer some damage, perhaps even be destroyed, but you improve the chances of survival significantly by sacrificing the airframe intelligently. IIMC crashes almost always destroy the aircraft and kill the crew.
If you don't want to face these choices, don't go where they're necessary.
A VFR pilot IIMC is probably going to lose control. Continuing into rising terrain below a safe altitude, without possibility of a vfr turnaround and deteriorating to IMC weather (especially with the rocks 8 seconds ahead- 120 kts over .5 km)
is an immediate life threatening situation. Land now, while you have power and control.
Pick a place where your least likely to catastrophically lose control of the helicopter in that process, like rolling down a mountain. The aircraft will suffer some damage, perhaps even be destroyed, but you improve the chances of survival significantly by sacrificing the airframe intelligently. IIMC crashes almost always destroy the aircraft and kill the crew.
If you don't want to face these choices, don't go where they're necessary.
inadvertent
adjective
an inadvertent omission: unintentional, unintended, accidental, unpremeditated, unplanned, innocent, uncalculated, unconscious, unthinking, unwitting, involuntary; careless, negligent.
Just think you can probably be prosecuted for it as well if you survive.
The common terms are underlined which have parallels in regulatory terms.
It's called VFR - Visual Flight Rules
adjective
an inadvertent omission: unintentional, unintended, accidental, unpremeditated, unplanned, innocent, uncalculated, unconscious, unthinking, unwitting, involuntary; careless, negligent.
Just think you can probably be prosecuted for it as well if you survive.
The common terms are underlined which have parallels in regulatory terms.
It's called VFR - Visual Flight Rules
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There is a YouTube vid from Airbus Helicopters that is linked in the article. It is also worth watching:
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Excellent article and video. I'd seen the flight reconstruction at a safety meeting but this puts it all into context. I'll be presenting this at a Air Medical safety meeting for crews on Monday.
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As someone who flies IMC quite a bit in a corporate role, I also find it useful to fly with (brief) reference to instruments in VMC conditions from time to time, particularly when departing and approaching. It's pretty interesting seeing exacty what the AI is displaying as you lift, transition and climb away, particularly with pitch changes. Getting familiar with patterns of say a transient 10 deg pitch down, first increasing then decreasing, but with the VSI and ASI climbing, plus in a turn, is good training. And on approaches too. Clearly when you're flying in IMC, pitch and roll changes are much slower but it's good for your scan though to piece it all together on instruments on a VMC departure. I think some VFR pilots (and even some IFR) might benefit with being more familiar with the AI picture to give more confidence when hand flying in IMC. The stress of IIMC for a VFR pilot is sure to test whatever formal instrument training has ever been undertaken, yet this sort of informal self-training can be done on many flights.
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NTSB Board Meeting Alaska State Troopers Helicopter Crash (IIMC - loss of control)
For the most comprehensive coverage on a VFR/NVG LOC accident, visit this site:
Board Meeting: Alaska State Troopers Helicopter Crash
Once there, read all the relevant material but, specifically, visit the 'presentations' via the hot-field on the top right of the opening page:
Presentations
The discussion on this site - including the opening message from the Acting Chairman Christopher A Hart - is the most compelling I have seen ever.
Mars
Board Meeting: Alaska State Troopers Helicopter Crash
Once there, read all the relevant material but, specifically, visit the 'presentations' via the hot-field on the top right of the opening page:
Presentations
The discussion on this site - including the opening message from the Acting Chairman Christopher A Hart - is the most compelling I have seen ever.
Mars
Avoid imitations
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Tried to read it but clicking on the presentation link does nothing on my PC or Ipad.
I found it on Youtube by clicking on the other links.
I was most interested to find out what the pilot's instrument flying qualifications and experience were; now seen(!).
Obviously, there was no IFR backup plan.
I found it on Youtube by clicking on the other links.
I was most interested to find out what the pilot's instrument flying qualifications and experience were; now seen(!).
Obviously, there was no IFR backup plan.
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nelly
I was taught never to enter the crap. But if I did I would be going slow and low enough to get back out of it in a slow, shallow decent.
i was taught - if you enter the crap and you cannot see - Go up for a think and ask for help
You are kidding yourself if you think you can maintain adequate control in low speed IMC flight and still have the awareness to avoid wires and other obstacles that might suddenly appear out of the murk.
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The radar controllers will help anyone ... even a VRF single who has inadvertantly enerted the cloud or crap - even in uncontrolled airspace ....
i wasn't in any way saying that is what it was or what caused it - living not far away and not been able to see the pylon tops...made me keep my feet on the ground.....
Last edited by nellycopter; 1st Jun 2018 at 12:56.
How long can the average VFR rated helicopter pilot keep an unstabilised helicopter upright in IMC without SAS or an autopilot? We are not talking about preplanned IMC but sudden loss of visual references. And to then set up and follow a PRA (frequency and altimeter changes, changes of heading / height / speed, set up ROD ) because most likely the cloudbase will be below minima elsewhere......... The only lesson to be learned is dont go IIMC. Put it on the ground, swallow your pride and have a cup of tea.