R44 crash with pics
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From the close-up pics it seems he has a LOT of collective pitch.
If you combine this, the long sleeves and the headset around the neck of the passenger (i.e. it looks rushed) - it might just be an accidental take off.
Obviously, it's never happened to me; but I'd imagine the cyclic would flop forward (natural tilt of the body when lifting with forward C of G).
This would explain the massive initial forward push.
I'm no expert: just throwing ideas out there.
If you combine this, the long sleeves and the headset around the neck of the passenger (i.e. it looks rushed) - it might just be an accidental take off.
Obviously, it's never happened to me; but I'd imagine the cyclic would flop forward (natural tilt of the body when lifting with forward C of G).
This would explain the massive initial forward push.
I'm no expert: just throwing ideas out there.
i'm amazed that both blades are still attached and with little or no visible damage!
Lucky they all got out - that picture with the two hands pressed against the transparency as the aircraft sinks is pretty chilling!
OH
Lucky they all got out - that picture with the two hands pressed against the transparency as the aircraft sinks is pretty chilling!
OH
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Could also be the pilot being distracted by the door opening and then hastily closing it without maintaining control of the aircraft?
Or, maybe R44's are developing an affinity for water. I'd forgotten about this thirsty one,
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/474...own-video.html
Thirstiness is spreading,
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/480...6-injured.html
Or, maybe R44's are developing an affinity for water. I'd forgotten about this thirsty one,
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/474...own-video.html
Thirstiness is spreading,
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/480...6-injured.html
Last edited by FairWeatherFlyer; 28th Mar 2012 at 09:23. Reason: 2nd idea + further evidence for 2nd idea
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WTF happened
I wonder if the duals were in and the front passenger wasn't rated?
I agree, it looks like an unplanned takeoff, possibly with the cyclic friction wound up good and tight?
Loads of pitch, blades coning.
As the pilot survived - lucky or what?! - I hope we can learn a lot from this accident.
HP
I agree, it looks like an unplanned takeoff, possibly with the cyclic friction wound up good and tight?
Loads of pitch, blades coning.
As the pilot survived - lucky or what?! - I hope we can learn a lot from this accident.
HP
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Duals aren't in, you can see in the blowups some nice people have made.
That said it is possible co-pilot lever is in, but the arm position doesn't appear to tally with the pilot's quite enough.
As with all the other posters, I'm damn intrigued with how this one came about.
But equally impressed that the readily visible damage is limited to the fibreglass chin, and apparently nothing else!
That said it is possible co-pilot lever is in, but the arm position doesn't appear to tally with the pilot's quite enough.
As with all the other posters, I'm damn intrigued with how this one came about.
But equally impressed that the readily visible damage is limited to the fibreglass chin, and apparently nothing else!
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Here's another article with video of the R44 being pulled from the lake.
Also in the video is an interview with the passenger and his son. Seems a brave young lad, what an experience that must have been.
Can any of our Dutch rotorheads give us a quick summary of what the pax is saying? Any clues as to what happened?
RTV Oost - Nieuws: Helikopter uit het water gehaald
Also in the video is an interview with the passenger and his son. Seems a brave young lad, what an experience that must have been.
Can any of our Dutch rotorheads give us a quick summary of what the pax is saying? Any clues as to what happened?
RTV Oost - Nieuws: Helikopter uit het water gehaald
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No rotorhead but Dutch
What the father explains at around 00:20 s is that the helicopter started to move unintentionally. The helicopter started to move itself from the platform, this is why he pilot decided to get airborne even without having the helicopter under control, then he decided to ditch it before the situation got worse.
What the father explains at around 00:20 s is that the helicopter started to move unintentionally. The helicopter started to move itself from the platform, this is why he pilot decided to get airborne even without having the helicopter under control, then he decided to ditch it before the situation got worse.
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'Unintentional flight'
Lets be clear, somebody raised the collective. Paasenger fumbling with seatbelts?
My guess is that the cyclic friction was on. Looking at the coning and pitch I wonder if it was running up pre 70%? You wouldn't normally wind it up to 100% until you were ready to lift off. There seems to be lots of evidence to suggest that they weren't ready to go.
An unenviable, and for the pilot potentialy embarrassing situation, a bit like the bloke who lifted up into the bi-fold door in his R44 (and blamed his passenger in his accident report to the FAA...)
It hammers home why we should always remove the duals unless you have a rated pilot in the seat. In my case, my partner completed a 10hr safety course so the duals stay in when she's aboard.
Just the opinions of a non sky-god 800hr R44 owner. I would bet that the pilot in this incident was a low time PPL too??
HP
My guess is that the cyclic friction was on. Looking at the coning and pitch I wonder if it was running up pre 70%? You wouldn't normally wind it up to 100% until you were ready to lift off. There seems to be lots of evidence to suggest that they weren't ready to go.
An unenviable, and for the pilot potentialy embarrassing situation, a bit like the bloke who lifted up into the bi-fold door in his R44 (and blamed his passenger in his accident report to the FAA...)
It hammers home why we should always remove the duals unless you have a rated pilot in the seat. In my case, my partner completed a 10hr safety course so the duals stay in when she's aboard.
Just the opinions of a non sky-god 800hr R44 owner. I would bet that the pilot in this incident was a low time PPL too??
HP
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Simon
If we are throwing out theories
Running it up to 70% with collective up, and the governor still on.
Ovenproof catches as he misses 70% and passes 80%. And up he goes
Running it up to 70% with collective up, and the governor still on.
Ovenproof catches as he misses 70% and passes 80%. And up he goes
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Theories..
Hi CD,
If.......
If the lever was other than flat on the floor the Low Rotor RPM horn would be shrieking throughout. This, IMO, was a sudden and unexpected incident.
If the pax lifted the lever - it can happen - the pilot would have suddenly been faced with a sudden jump into the air, loud horn, light, screwed down friction on a cyclic 'set well forward of the hover', decaying MR RPM, lots of commotion, plus noise from them in the headset...get the picture..??
He then had 2 urgent(!) things to do with his left hand, ie roll on throttle and release the friction, to save the day.
I don't think anybody could have done it.
So, if thats what happened...the lessons learned are those we all know about, ie guard the levers/ remove them if the front pax isn't rated.
Just the theory of a hobby pilot/ owner.
HP
If.......
If the lever was other than flat on the floor the Low Rotor RPM horn would be shrieking throughout. This, IMO, was a sudden and unexpected incident.
If the pax lifted the lever - it can happen - the pilot would have suddenly been faced with a sudden jump into the air, loud horn, light, screwed down friction on a cyclic 'set well forward of the hover', decaying MR RPM, lots of commotion, plus noise from them in the headset...get the picture..??
He then had 2 urgent(!) things to do with his left hand, ie roll on throttle and release the friction, to save the day.
I don't think anybody could have done it.
So, if thats what happened...the lessons learned are those we all know about, ie guard the levers/ remove them if the front pax isn't rated.
Just the theory of a hobby pilot/ owner.
HP
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Maybe pax was looking for seatbelt, right hand just goes down and yanks up the nearest thing he could find?
Lots of reasons to fly helicopters from the left seat, cyclic and collective are all out of the way of pax, they can fumble round in the middle, as long as the duals are removed then everything is alright.
Also you can comfortably open and close your door in the hover, or even hand things out the window.
Lots of reasons to fly helicopters from the left seat, cyclic and collective are all out of the way of pax, they can fumble round in the middle, as long as the duals are removed then everything is alright.
Also you can comfortably open and close your door in the hover, or even hand things out the window.
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My Opinion
As per my experience on Robinson 44 (Sufficient to comment 
) he probably find himself in a typical pax induced "emergency".
Probably the LH pax moved the collective lever while adjusting his butt on the seat, with the heli warming up at 70% receiving a sufficient inertia to move from the deck.
At this point the PIC have been to manage the situation and he probably, fail to maintain opened the throttle (if he warmup with GOV off, as European schools normally requires) and the loss of E/RPM, R/RPM induced a more difficult situation.
Sincerely, with HYD on and Friction ON with some difficulties you can manage to maintain a safe attitude.
The LOW RPM on the other hands in my opinion is a good explication of why the blades ar not so much damaged.
IMHO, obviously.
PE
) he probably find himself in a typical pax induced "emergency".Probably the LH pax moved the collective lever while adjusting his butt on the seat, with the heli warming up at 70% receiving a sufficient inertia to move from the deck.
At this point the PIC have been to manage the situation and he probably, fail to maintain opened the throttle (if he warmup with GOV off, as European schools normally requires) and the loss of E/RPM, R/RPM induced a more difficult situation.
Sincerely, with HYD on and Friction ON with some difficulties you can manage to maintain a safe attitude.
The LOW RPM on the other hands in my opinion is a good explication of why the blades ar not so much damaged.
IMHO, obviously.
PE
Fatal Rotor Stall happens at 80%
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Hi fellow rotorheads,
I've got some inside information pertaining this unfortunate incident. A direct colleague of mine spoke the with the pilot hours after this happened. So it is not from a direct source and can not be conclusive ofcourse, but perhaps something can be learned.
It apparently was a case of ground resonance that the pilot experienced when being at 70% rpm. At that moment he decided to pick it up but did not have enough torque to be really in control. The result is shown here.
Terrible thing. I have landed myself on that platform a few times before. I am wondering, could the construction of the platform be a factor? It is a wooden construction, some years old....
I've got some inside information pertaining this unfortunate incident. A direct colleague of mine spoke the with the pilot hours after this happened. So it is not from a direct source and can not be conclusive ofcourse, but perhaps something can be learned.
It apparently was a case of ground resonance that the pilot experienced when being at 70% rpm. At that moment he decided to pick it up but did not have enough torque to be really in control. The result is shown here.
Terrible thing. I have landed myself on that platform a few times before. I am wondering, could the construction of the platform be a factor? It is a wooden construction, some years old....