Almost died in the Gulf of Mexico yesterday..
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Interesting thread. I have a couple questions about ops in the GOM. First of all, keep in mind this is coming from a 10k hour FW pilot with Comm/Inst RW and 500 hours.....so just enough to be dangerous. 
1. Do the VFR helicopter in the GOM have basic VFR instrumentation, or do they have full IFR instruments but are only VFR certified? I assume they have full IFR instruments in case of inadvertent VFR into IMC. I have friends flying 206's in medevac roles that are full IFR equipped but only VFR certified, and the pilots have to do sim checks IFR every so often just in case. Am I correct to assume its basically the same for GOM operators?
2. Say a pilot departs in an IFR equipped but VFR certified 206 for a platform in minimum allowed weather. Along the way, the weather drops and he has to turn around....but the weather has dropped behind him as well. In my mind, the best course of action is to go on instruments and climb into it if you're boxed in with no place to land. Again, keep in mind, this is my FW mentality and the fact that I have nearly 1k hours actual IFR and feel 100% comfortable doing it. I know that many RW only pilots have very little to no actual IFR time and probably aren't proficient at IFR flying.
Is it recommended that if you are boxed in that you just climb into it and go shoot an approach somewhere? Obviously, I expect that if a pilot gets himself into that situation, he will be called in for a carpet dance....but is it likely to be more serious than just getting a talking to? I suspect repeat offenders will be handled differently. I'm referring only to the company here, not the FAA. We all know they can always get you with careless and reckless if they want to.
Thanks for any replies. I keep my eye on this section since I am considering making the move to strictly RW...but with 500 hours RW and no CFI(I have FW, but have not added on RW CFI) I'm a bit limited, and I'm thinking some VFR operations in the GOM may be my only shot for starting out.
1. Do the VFR helicopter in the GOM have basic VFR instrumentation, or do they have full IFR instruments but are only VFR certified? I assume they have full IFR instruments in case of inadvertent VFR into IMC. I have friends flying 206's in medevac roles that are full IFR equipped but only VFR certified, and the pilots have to do sim checks IFR every so often just in case. Am I correct to assume its basically the same for GOM operators?
2. Say a pilot departs in an IFR equipped but VFR certified 206 for a platform in minimum allowed weather. Along the way, the weather drops and he has to turn around....but the weather has dropped behind him as well. In my mind, the best course of action is to go on instruments and climb into it if you're boxed in with no place to land. Again, keep in mind, this is my FW mentality and the fact that I have nearly 1k hours actual IFR and feel 100% comfortable doing it. I know that many RW only pilots have very little to no actual IFR time and probably aren't proficient at IFR flying.
Is it recommended that if you are boxed in that you just climb into it and go shoot an approach somewhere? Obviously, I expect that if a pilot gets himself into that situation, he will be called in for a carpet dance....but is it likely to be more serious than just getting a talking to? I suspect repeat offenders will be handled differently. I'm referring only to the company here, not the FAA. We all know they can always get you with careless and reckless if they want to.
Thanks for any replies. I keep my eye on this section since I am considering making the move to strictly RW...but with 500 hours RW and no CFI(I have FW, but have not added on RW CFI) I'm a bit limited, and I'm thinking some VFR operations in the GOM may be my only shot for starting out.
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Perhaps the Hopkins report, while somewhat skewed, has a point when it noted that since 2007 things have gotten better - since the very system I have been describing has been implemented.
Could you explain why the Hopkins report is somewhat skewed?
I hope that the situation improves in the GOM, however the noted improvement was qualified with this statement:
Following 2007, however, the researchers measured a decrease in crashes.
“While the apparent deterioration in safety over time is alarming, I am encouraged by the most recent data,” said Baker. “Only time will tell whether this is a temporary statistical blip or the beginning of a positive trend.”
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SKWINTY - Based on Hopkins press release, (as a typical pilot I'm frugal - OK cheap - to the point of not wanting to spend $20 to download the actual report) there were two things that struck me. First was the use of the word "crash." That's an inflamatory word that undoubtedly includes successful autorotations that resulted in being classified as accidents due to post landing damage or sinking. The second thing that stuck me was classifying "crash's" by years instead of by hours flown. Just by the periods mentioned, the 1980's were slow whereas the 1990's saw a boom and the Gulf has hundreds of helicopters. Anyway, back to how things are now - they are a lot better and that's reflected in the current trend.
HPIC - Little ships (206's, 407's) have basic instuments including an attitude indicator, RMI, VSI, altimeter etc. They are not instument equiped or certified. The procedure taught in the event of inadvertant IFR is to keep wings level and climb straight ahead hopefully to VFR, or at 1000 feet begin a 180 degree turn back to where you came from or to a known clear area as shown on the GPS.
HPIC - Little ships (206's, 407's) have basic instuments including an attitude indicator, RMI, VSI, altimeter etc. They are not instument equiped or certified. The procedure taught in the event of inadvertant IFR is to keep wings level and climb straight ahead hopefully to VFR, or at 1000 feet begin a 180 degree turn back to where you came from or to a known clear area as shown on the GPS.
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Thanks for any replies. I keep my eye on this section since I am considering making the move to strictly RW...but with 500 hours RW and no CFI(I have FW, but have not added on RW CFI) I'm a bit limited, and I'm thinking some VFR operations in the GOM may be my only shot for starting out.
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Originally Posted by darrenphughes
HPIC, just a heads up, you're gonna need a RW IR to get hired in the Gulf even if you're going for a VFR position.
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This is a debate of neither the OP’s perceptions nor his proper redress. The question, to ALL helicopter pilots both onshore and offshore, is what do you do when you are nearing “MINIMUMS”.
I emphasize minimums because that is what they are. It’s not a point to decide if you should proceed, if you’re at minimums that’s as far as you can proceed, you should have been planning your next move 15 minutes ago. When it gets to minimums STOP! Yes, you can stop, you deviate to the nearest platform with an appropriate heliport, no, I don’t care if it’s your companies heliport, no, I don’t care if you REALLY don’t want to stop.
I’ve been operating in the Gulf for 31 years, more than 20,000 hours offshore. Don’t even suggest (other than night) you go inadvertent! You know damned well you’re below minimums. If your minimums are 500 and 2, fly at 450, when the clouds and or fog approach, you’ve gone too far. What moron flies into the clouds at 500’ seriously? If you’re coming into a foggy area, duh, slow down!!! Deviate!!!
The problem is not with our equipment, nor our minimums, it’s with me and you. Our egos make us push on when we know we should have stopped. Which is more often far beyond our company minimums!
31 years, NEVER gone inadvertent IFR during the day. I did go IFR on a night emergency, but, that’s another story.
Oh, BTW, lest you think I’m a VFR only pilot, CFI, CFII, former Pilot Proficiency Examiner (PPE), former 135 Check Airman, dual rated former U.S. Army Instrument Flight Examiner with well over 1,000 hours of ACTUAL instruments (not just on and IFR flight plan… LOL), all of those formers, are because as of next week I’ll be a retired offshore pilot.
I emphasize minimums because that is what they are. It’s not a point to decide if you should proceed, if you’re at minimums that’s as far as you can proceed, you should have been planning your next move 15 minutes ago. When it gets to minimums STOP! Yes, you can stop, you deviate to the nearest platform with an appropriate heliport, no, I don’t care if it’s your companies heliport, no, I don’t care if you REALLY don’t want to stop.
I’ve been operating in the Gulf for 31 years, more than 20,000 hours offshore. Don’t even suggest (other than night) you go inadvertent! You know damned well you’re below minimums. If your minimums are 500 and 2, fly at 450, when the clouds and or fog approach, you’ve gone too far. What moron flies into the clouds at 500’ seriously? If you’re coming into a foggy area, duh, slow down!!! Deviate!!!
The problem is not with our equipment, nor our minimums, it’s with me and you. Our egos make us push on when we know we should have stopped. Which is more often far beyond our company minimums!
31 years, NEVER gone inadvertent IFR during the day. I did go IFR on a night emergency, but, that’s another story.
Oh, BTW, lest you think I’m a VFR only pilot, CFI, CFII, former Pilot Proficiency Examiner (PPE), former 135 Check Airman, dual rated former U.S. Army Instrument Flight Examiner with well over 1,000 hours of ACTUAL instruments (not just on and IFR flight plan… LOL), all of those formers, are because as of next week I’ll be a retired offshore pilot.
Congratulations on your pending retirement!
Now roll up yer sleeves and get to work!
Now roll up yer sleeves and get to work!
TCVennen: the problem with your assessment is that those who skirt with disaster, do so because they have never been there before. By that I mean, they have never actually gone inadvertent IMC. If they did, they wouldn't want to do it in a hurry again. SO - my point is, they go right to the limit before backing out.
Secondly, the weather could so easily close in from behind making your '15 minutes' redundant. The decision should have been made before they got airborne in reality.
Pilots by their very nature are risk takers / experimenters. You won't stop the gambler in them until it's too late.
This sort of flying behaviour will go on and continue to take its victims annually. The trouble is - who do they take with them.........
Secondly, the weather could so easily close in from behind making your '15 minutes' redundant. The decision should have been made before they got airborne in reality.
Pilots by their very nature are risk takers / experimenters. You won't stop the gambler in them until it's too late.
This sort of flying behaviour will go on and continue to take its victims annually. The trouble is - who do they take with them.........
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WOW! The reason I haven’t responded is that I knew before hand that I would be lashed for hyperboling my wonderful experience. Let me get the naysayers out of the way first. Some of your conspiracy theories about me trolling the internet just to “piss off pilots” is the dumbest thing I ever heard, why would I waste my time doing that? Also, suggesting that I’m posting on other helicopter forums is a bit much. Are you aware that there were other passengers on the flight? They could have easily been venting, there were tons of helicopters going in that day, it could have been a pax on one of those birds telling his experience, you guys don’t have the best reputation you know?
Some of you must work for the US government! Because you are trying to tell me what my eyes see and ears hear are not real. I have been flying in the GOM since 95’, I work on 4700VAC Solar turbine generators and program PLC’s for a living. So yeah, I can read a gauge! That was not my first time flying offshore. I have thousands of hours as a passenger and have flown with hundreds of pilots, heck I’ve likely flown with you before! I have seen you kill yourselves and I have seen you kill my friends, my run in the GOM has been long with little incident, I just want to make it to the beach in one piece, not a body bag. If we have to land on some nasty toadstool for the night, then so be it! I will buy you a case of beer when we get in.
As the economy deteriorates people start fearing for their jobs, I assume pilots are no exception. It amazes me the inability that pilots have to SAY NO in fear of retaliation. The bottom line is economics, and that is all that matters, my life is worth about 1million USD post crash, it’s cheaper to risk it and fly like a wild man I guess. I’m highly suspect of this latest Coast Guard crash, especially ending nose first like a dart on the bay floor ejecting flight crew out of seatbelts. Sounds like someone got disoriented on a foggy night.
Anyway, I’m not “sorry” for addressing you more properly or with “respect” in my original post, because when you knowingly put my life in jeopardy like that, I lose all respect for you. You are not “special” because you fly helicopters for a living, some of you gamble with lives on purpose when conditions are well below company minimums.
THANK YOU European pilots and GOM pilots who were able to understand my frustration and post about my flight that day.
Some of you must work for the US government! Because you are trying to tell me what my eyes see and ears hear are not real. I have been flying in the GOM since 95’, I work on 4700VAC Solar turbine generators and program PLC’s for a living. So yeah, I can read a gauge! That was not my first time flying offshore. I have thousands of hours as a passenger and have flown with hundreds of pilots, heck I’ve likely flown with you before! I have seen you kill yourselves and I have seen you kill my friends, my run in the GOM has been long with little incident, I just want to make it to the beach in one piece, not a body bag. If we have to land on some nasty toadstool for the night, then so be it! I will buy you a case of beer when we get in.
As the economy deteriorates people start fearing for their jobs, I assume pilots are no exception. It amazes me the inability that pilots have to SAY NO in fear of retaliation. The bottom line is economics, and that is all that matters, my life is worth about 1million USD post crash, it’s cheaper to risk it and fly like a wild man I guess. I’m highly suspect of this latest Coast Guard crash, especially ending nose first like a dart on the bay floor ejecting flight crew out of seatbelts. Sounds like someone got disoriented on a foggy night.
Anyway, I’m not “sorry” for addressing you more properly or with “respect” in my original post, because when you knowingly put my life in jeopardy like that, I lose all respect for you. You are not “special” because you fly helicopters for a living, some of you gamble with lives on purpose when conditions are well below company minimums.
THANK YOU European pilots and GOM pilots who were able to understand my frustration and post about my flight that day.
Take my hat off to this guy ..
The matter being broached (complete with slurs and prejudicial insinuations towards the pilot on the part of the OP) is somewhat imperative in nature but is diminshed by his aspersions as well as his rhetoric - both of which give the impression that he is more intent on communicating his 'belief' of the events than discovering the factors surrounding an encounter of this sort and in understanding the actions which might normally be taken in response.
Most of all, someone genuinely concerned with safety would raise this with the operator and not leave it to an internet forum which, after all, is an extremely informal way of addressing what is (as mentioned) a weighty matter.
Had he been someone with courage (or decency) he would have spoken in open and frank terms with the pilot after the event stating his concern and noting the pilot's response. The lack of any quotations from the driver by the OP makes it highly unlikely that the OP had such a conversation.
If the OP didn't have the gumption to speak with either the pilot or the operator then, given that these are anonymous forums, it wouldn't exceed the realm of possibility for the OP to have communicated a message to the pilot notifying him that he had started a discussion on PPRuNe and inviting the driver to respond to the details herein.
And this leads to my greatest conern of all; that what we are hearing is only one side of the story.
Not impressed.
