Gazelle accident Salisbury UK Jan 2012
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Gazelle accident Salisbury UK Jan 2012
Three people are thought to have been on board when the crash happened at the Churchfields Industrial Estate just after 9.30am.
Early reports are that all three people managed to get out of the wreckage, one was injured but no one was killed.
more details/photo here
Early reports are that all three people managed to get out of the wreckage, one was injured but no one was killed.
more details/photo here
"“I saw the whole thing out of my office window.
“The helicopter was hovering over by the trees and it seemed like the pilot was trying to find somewhere to land.
“He started to come down but the ground there is very uneven.
“It went out of control and crashed into the trees.
“Luckily the people managed to get out before it flipped over.
“It toppled over and the blades went into the ground. It was all mangled – there’s not much of it left."
A blue Gazelle, apparently. Not a great start to 2012.
“The helicopter was hovering over by the trees and it seemed like the pilot was trying to find somewhere to land.
“He started to come down but the ground there is very uneven.
“It went out of control and crashed into the trees.
“Luckily the people managed to get out before it flipped over.
“It toppled over and the blades went into the ground. It was all mangled – there’s not much of it left."
A blue Gazelle, apparently. Not a great start to 2012.
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Not another..
4th Gazelle airframe lost in barely 2 years IIRC.. and the previous 3 were all fatals..and w/x related. Maybe a training/licencing issue here.. it's not a
difficult helicopter to fly, after all. TP
difficult helicopter to fly, after all. TP
On the contrary - it can be a challenging and unforgiving aircraft in inexperience hands (in comparison to say an R44 or a jet-box).
There have been several instances of PPL's with comparatively few hours in total and very few hours on the Gaz coming a cropper - particularly with yaw / fenestron related issues.
Hope everyone recovers well.
OH
There have been several instances of PPL's with comparatively few hours in total and very few hours on the Gaz coming a cropper - particularly with yaw / fenestron related issues.
Hope everyone recovers well.
OH
"He definitely had some sort of mechanical problem..."
Glad they all got out ok. This could well be the last straw for the insurance companies which already hate the gazelle.
Glad they all got out ok. This could well be the last straw for the insurance companies which already hate the gazelle.
Last edited by toptobottom; 10th Jan 2012 at 21:52. Reason: can't spell Gazzell
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I hope all are ok.
There are very few instances that require to land immediately in a gaz, so I am surprised where this attempt has taken place.
As for fenestron related issues, there are numerous statements of stalls etc non of which have any scientific basis, in depth trials by the manufacturer and EPTS could not reproduce "fenestron issues", gross mis-handling would be the likely cause in virtually all cases.
If the Gazelle was so difficult to fly it would not have been chosen as the military trainer and kept for so long
There are very few instances that require to land immediately in a gaz, so I am surprised where this attempt has taken place.
As for fenestron related issues, there are numerous statements of stalls etc non of which have any scientific basis, in depth trials by the manufacturer and EPTS could not reproduce "fenestron issues", gross mis-handling would be the likely cause in virtually all cases.
If the Gazelle was so difficult to fly it would not have been chosen as the military trainer and kept for so long
Avoid imitations
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As for fenestron related issues, there are numerous statements of stalls etc non of which have any scientific basis, in depth trials by the manufacturer and EPTS could not reproduce "fenestron issues", gross mis-handling would be the likely cause in virtually all cases.
I went back to it some three years later for a CFS check ride and the term had by then been invented. First I heard about this was when I brought the tail round in a 12 kt wind to look out above and behind before departure and was instantly criticised for it; my examiner took control from me as it was apparently so dangerous
Not sure how we survived that awful episode; I'd only done it thousands of times before, in far stronger winds with no issues, as had hundreds of other pilots.
Yes Shy Torque....I also have the feeling that a great fuss over nothing is made around tail rotor stall on shrouded tail rotor helicopters. Despite many thousands of hours logged on AS365 and few hundreds on Gazelle, this issue never had been a concern neither to myself nor with other pilots on this types of helicopters.
Be very careful what is said about Fenestron Stall, to newbie's.
There is a phenomenon where the "acceptance angle" at the shroud permits the tail rotor to accelerate significantly to such an extent that the aircraft will rotate well in excess of its operating limit. (The cab can rotate around its axis atleast once or even twice IN SECONDS before the uninitiated pilot knows what is happening).
As (quite rightly) mentioned, this is NOT a design flaw, or LTE. It is, how shall we say: "a shrouded tail rotor aerodynamic phenomenon" which ALL shrouded tail rotor pilots MUST be aware of.
The phenomenon is easily overcome by applying FULL and persistent opposite pedal until the spin stops...and it will.
The problem with the great unwashed is that IF they are not aware of this, then it will certainly take them by surprise and probably lead to them losing control of the a/c.
There is a phenomenon where the "acceptance angle" at the shroud permits the tail rotor to accelerate significantly to such an extent that the aircraft will rotate well in excess of its operating limit. (The cab can rotate around its axis atleast once or even twice IN SECONDS before the uninitiated pilot knows what is happening).
As (quite rightly) mentioned, this is NOT a design flaw, or LTE. It is, how shall we say: "a shrouded tail rotor aerodynamic phenomenon" which ALL shrouded tail rotor pilots MUST be aware of.
The phenomenon is easily overcome by applying FULL and persistent opposite pedal until the spin stops...and it will.
The problem with the great unwashed is that IF they are not aware of this, then it will certainly take them by surprise and probably lead to them losing control of the a/c.
tail rotor to accelerate significantly
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Be very careful what is said about Fenestron Stall, to newbie's.
There is a phenomenon where the "acceptance angle" at the shroud permits the tail rotor to accelerate significantly to such an extent that the aircraft will rotate well in excess of its operating limit. (The cab can rotate around its axis atleast once or even twice IN SECONDS before the uninitiated pilot knows what is happening).
As (quite rightly) mentioned, this is NOT a design flaw, or LTE. It is, how shall we say: "a shrouded tail rotor aerodynamic phenomenon" which ALL shrouded tail rotor pilots MUST be aware of.
There is a phenomenon where the "acceptance angle" at the shroud permits the tail rotor to accelerate significantly to such an extent that the aircraft will rotate well in excess of its operating limit. (The cab can rotate around its axis atleast once or even twice IN SECONDS before the uninitiated pilot knows what is happening).
As (quite rightly) mentioned, this is NOT a design flaw, or LTE. It is, how shall we say: "a shrouded tail rotor aerodynamic phenomenon" which ALL shrouded tail rotor pilots MUST be aware of.
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So what is the maximum rate of yaw permitted and is there a directional restriction - that is left or right - or is any restriction applicable to both directions of yaw?
Best Wishes
Best Wishes
212 and Wizzard: correct, my apologies 
I meant YAW RATE...phew. Thanks for that.
Agincourt, I forget the yaw rate limitations...is it 3 seconds for a full 360 normally?
Not sure what you are talking about re the rest?
I meant YAW RATE...phew. Thanks for that.Agincourt, I forget the yaw rate limitations...is it 3 seconds for a full 360 normally?
Not sure what you are talking about re the rest?
OvertHawk wrote: There have been several instances of PPL's with comparatively few hours in total and very few hours on the Gaz coming a cropper - particularly with yaw/fenestron related issues.
An excerpt from the Accident Report reads:
The helicopter was lifting off from the western side of the International Arena at the Hickstead Showground for a flight to Selsey. The pilot reported that the wind was calm and he lifted to ahover about 6 to 8 feet above the ground. He began a left pedal turn to position the helicopter fortransition over the open arena area to the east.
As the turn approached 180° from the initial heading,the pilot felt that he was unable to stop the helicopter turning left. The rate of turn began to increaserapidly.After some 10 to 12 rotations, the pilot elected to land the helicopter immediately while still turningrapidly to the left.
On touchdown, the right skid broke and damage was sustained during therotational deceleration. The helicopter came to rest upright and the pilot shut down the enginebefore vacating the helicopter through the door on the right side, which had come open during thelanding sequence.
The pilot reported that a witness on the ground had heard a 'bang' and a grinding sound when thehelicopter was commencing its spot turn to the left.
Subsequent engineering inspection by the maintenance organisation found that the tail rotortransmission was still connected. The fenestron fairing was buckled and there was evidence that thetail rotor blades had contacted the inside of the fairing while rotating at operating speeds, but thisprobably occurred during the ground contact. No tail rotor blade failures were noted. There werealso indications that a main rotor blade had made contact with the corner of the right side door. The engineer assessed that there was no mechanical failure noted that could have accounted for theaccident.
As the turn approached 180° from the initial heading,the pilot felt that he was unable to stop the helicopter turning left. The rate of turn began to increaserapidly.After some 10 to 12 rotations, the pilot elected to land the helicopter immediately while still turningrapidly to the left.
On touchdown, the right skid broke and damage was sustained during therotational deceleration. The helicopter came to rest upright and the pilot shut down the enginebefore vacating the helicopter through the door on the right side, which had come open during thelanding sequence.
The pilot reported that a witness on the ground had heard a 'bang' and a grinding sound when thehelicopter was commencing its spot turn to the left.
Subsequent engineering inspection by the maintenance organisation found that the tail rotortransmission was still connected. The fenestron fairing was buckled and there was evidence that thetail rotor blades had contacted the inside of the fairing while rotating at operating speeds, but thisprobably occurred during the ground contact. No tail rotor blade failures were noted. There werealso indications that a main rotor blade had made contact with the corner of the right side door. The engineer assessed that there was no mechanical failure noted that could have accounted for theaccident.
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TC - Max Rate Of Yaw Permitted - is - what?
I am not sure meself but 15 degrees per second seems to ring a bell. Anyway whatever the limit is, if you do not exceed it and you operate within all other parameters, then FS is not an issue. There are loads of ex-floppy drivers out there with thousands of hours on the machine and very few 'known' instances of this potential effect.
Best Wishes
I am not sure meself but 15 degrees per second seems to ring a bell. Anyway whatever the limit is, if you do not exceed it and you operate within all other parameters, then FS is not an issue. There are loads of ex-floppy drivers out there with thousands of hours on the machine and very few 'known' instances of this potential effect.
Best Wishes