UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2
Sadly, Air Support falls in the 'nice to have' column, although many on here think that society will fall appart and chaos reign without Air Support
Everyone agrees savings have to be made, but I do wonder if they are being made in the right places? How much does a PCSO cost per annum?
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Everyone agrees savings have to be made, but I do wonder if they are being made in the right places? How much does a PCSO cost per annum?
Spoken like a true Cop, one that sits in the crew roon looking at a 50inch plasma( we need it for flight safety videos and to show officers pursuits etc) pontificating on how poor officers at division are and how it should be done.
If your going to start looking at what is and isn't needed have a look around the crew room and in a mirror. When was the last time you worked for the whole of a shift, and I don't mean just monitoring logs. Two or three hours flying is a busy shift. What do you do for the other five? We are in a glasshouse, we shouldn't be throwing stones!
If your going to start looking at what is and isn't needed have a look around the crew room and in a mirror. When was the last time you worked for the whole of a shift, and I don't mean just monitoring logs. Two or three hours flying is a busy shift. What do you do for the other five? We are in a glasshouse, we shouldn't be throwing stones!
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Well done Chasps
Police_helicopter_called_in_to_rescue_girls_trapped_by_tide_ at_Easington
A POLICE helicopter was called into action last night to rescue two young girls trapped by the tide in Easington Colliery.
The alarm was raised shortly after 7.30pm when the pair, both 12-years-old found themselves caught out by the incoming tide.
One of the girls had called the police from her mobile phone and given brief details, but efforts to contact her again for more information were initially thwarted when the phone kept diverting to voicemail.
In the meantime, the North-East police helicopter, which is shared between the Northumbria and Durham forces, was dispatched to the area and a call made to the coastguard on the Humber.
The police air observer soon located the two girls who were by now sheltering in a cove.
The helicopter then landed on the beach and collected the pair, who were unharmed.
After landing in a nearby car park the crew handed the friends over to their parents fit and well.
A POLICE helicopter was called into action last night to rescue two young girls trapped by the tide in Easington Colliery.
The alarm was raised shortly after 7.30pm when the pair, both 12-years-old found themselves caught out by the incoming tide.
One of the girls had called the police from her mobile phone and given brief details, but efforts to contact her again for more information were initially thwarted when the phone kept diverting to voicemail.
In the meantime, the North-East police helicopter, which is shared between the Northumbria and Durham forces, was dispatched to the area and a call made to the coastguard on the Humber.
The police air observer soon located the two girls who were by now sheltering in a cove.
The helicopter then landed on the beach and collected the pair, who were unharmed.
After landing in a nearby car park the crew handed the friends over to their parents fit and well.
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Wagging Finger Quote:
Wagging Finger. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. What's more I'm not sure that you grasped the point I was trying to make! However, I am sure that Sid knows the point I was trying to make. So, point made!!
Point well made, whatever point it was in the first place, is there a point to all this?
Wagging Finger. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. What's more I'm not sure that you grasped the point I was trying to make! However, I am sure that Sid knows the point I was trying to make. So, point made!!
Point well made, whatever point it was in the first place, is there a point to all this?
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Health and safety dept.
Corporate communications dept.
Diversity department.
Business change directive.
Are these departments essential, or also shiny things that we don't need.
Well my force are keeping them, not chopping them. ie ring fenced..!!!
WF, If your force haven't ring-fenced certain depts, then they should have. You may well support NPAS, but personally I can't wait for it all to fall on its a@rse, so I can laugh my socks off.
And the people that will pull the plug, will be the bean counters. Because financially (amongst the rest of it) its all bollox. The lack of hard facts and figures is showing what a farce it all is.
Corporate communications dept.
Diversity department.
Business change directive.
Are these departments essential, or also shiny things that we don't need.
Well my force are keeping them, not chopping them. ie ring fenced..!!!
WF, If your force haven't ring-fenced certain depts, then they should have. You may well support NPAS, but personally I can't wait for it all to fall on its a@rse, so I can laugh my socks off.
And the people that will pull the plug, will be the bean counters. Because financially (amongst the rest of it) its all bollox. The lack of hard facts and figures is showing what a farce it all is.
Last edited by morris1; 7th Jul 2012 at 12:46.
Tightgit
but personally I can't wait for it all to fall on its a@rse, so I can laugh my socks off
Morris. If we assume that the service we provided before the demise of Merseyside, Cambridge and Hampshire was (for want of a better phrase), 'gold plated'. Your view appears to be that we should run either a gold plated service or none at all.
If you stop and think about it for a minute, that is an exceptionally arrogant view. Either NPAS do it in a way that you like or you want the whole organisation to crash and burn!
It matters not whether other departments within the police service have been ring fenced, Air Support is destined to become a national organisation. So we (or they, if I'm not destined to be involved), either make the best of what we have left or we throw our collective teddies in the corner and sulk like you appear to be doing. I appreciate that we may not be able to compensate for the losses of units and aircraft but if we believe that we are there to provide a public service then that is what we are obliged to try and do. It is public money we are spending.
I doubt there is a UEO, observer or pilot in the country who has not made every effort to try and preserve their own bit of air support for both altruistic and selfish reasons but EVERY Chief Constable has supported this change (and they are the ones empowered to make these decisions, not you or I) and it does actually seem to be happening.
Other than the valiant attempts made by the unit, force and population of South Yorkshire you will notice that the press is devoid of huge long articles about the impending demise of air support in England and Wales. That is because
1. It won't be dead (it will be different) and
2. Nobody (outside of our own little community), cares.
It doesn't help anybody who is in a unit that may close but given the scale of the spending cuts in the public sector, I still think NPAS is the least worst solution for maximising the number of police aircraft available to the police forces of England and Wales!
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Mightygem, thanks for the advice, suitably calm now and feeling better.
Handysnaks, well said,
Hopefully you will have a role in NPAS.
No doubt the resident troll will be back to anger me again at some stage, until then I'm having a rest in a darkened room
Handysnaks, well said,
It doesn't help anybody who is in a unit that may close but given the scale of the spending cuts in the public sector, I still think NPAS is the least worst solution for maximising the number of police aircraft available to the police forces of England and Wales!
No doubt the resident troll will be back to anger me again at some stage, until then I'm having a rest in a darkened room
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Handy, you sum up the situation perfectly with 1&2. Particularly 2.
Interesting seeing peoples comments like Lavas accusing people of accepting 2nd best. Get your head out of the sand (or lava) and think. Yes this is second best, but what EXACTLY other than griping, can you do about it?
See 2 above, people don't care a toss! They don't even need to see a saving, they blindly accept that cuts are happening therefore money is being saved. Levels of service? Levels shevels!
This is the situation that I accept in life. You need to as well. If you want to see the public fight back, then choose something they care about. Watch this space if Dave cuts more benefits.......
Interesting seeing peoples comments like Lavas accusing people of accepting 2nd best. Get your head out of the sand (or lava) and think. Yes this is second best, but what EXACTLY other than griping, can you do about it?
See 2 above, people don't care a toss! They don't even need to see a saving, they blindly accept that cuts are happening therefore money is being saved. Levels of service? Levels shevels!
This is the situation that I accept in life. You need to as well. If you want to see the public fight back, then choose something they care about. Watch this space if Dave cuts more benefits.......
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Handy's No2 has it in a nutshell.
As we have seen, the Government let alone the public, are quite anti when it comes to Police pay, conditions, pensions, cutbacks etc etc, do we really expect them to give a hoot about the officers and staff flying about in helicopters?
In the words of a 'senior suit' when a particular units ac went up in flames, "Looks like you've lost your 'boys toy' for a while then".
With morris saying things like "I can't wait for it all to fall on its a@rse, so I can laugh my socks off ", I wonder if he will be allowing, nay encouraging his unit to under perform to prove a point... in which case the rest of us might be safe when the next round of closures come along, because bet your bottom dollar they will and which units would you get rid of if you were at the helm !!
As we have seen, the Government let alone the public, are quite anti when it comes to Police pay, conditions, pensions, cutbacks etc etc, do we really expect them to give a hoot about the officers and staff flying about in helicopters?
In the words of a 'senior suit' when a particular units ac went up in flames, "Looks like you've lost your 'boys toy' for a while then".
With morris saying things like "I can't wait for it all to fall on its a@rse, so I can laugh my socks off ", I wonder if he will be allowing, nay encouraging his unit to under perform to prove a point... in which case the rest of us might be safe when the next round of closures come along, because bet your bottom dollar they will and which units would you get rid of if you were at the helm !!
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For the record.
After 24 years service I've seen lots of schemes come and go. I've also seen lots of "new" working practices further the careers of many a senior officer, only for them to be reinventing the wheel.
Throughout all, I keep doing my job despite the interference and meddling, and keep catching baddies with whatever tools I have.
The helicopter says "police" on it.
While ever that's the case, that's what I'll do because Im an attested Officer of the crown. Call me a troll if you like but I reserve the right to criticise a development which lessens my ability to catch bad people doing bad things.
If there are people out there who think that cops would deliberately run a unit down and not go out there day after day and keep trying to catch the baddies, despite npas, then you just don't get the point of it all.
After 24 years service I've seen lots of schemes come and go. I've also seen lots of "new" working practices further the careers of many a senior officer, only for them to be reinventing the wheel.
Throughout all, I keep doing my job despite the interference and meddling, and keep catching baddies with whatever tools I have.
The helicopter says "police" on it.
While ever that's the case, that's what I'll do because Im an attested Officer of the crown. Call me a troll if you like but I reserve the right to criticise a development which lessens my ability to catch bad people doing bad things.
If there are people out there who think that cops would deliberately run a unit down and not go out there day after day and keep trying to catch the baddies, despite npas, then you just don't get the point of it all.
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Nice words morris, nice words;
Please tell us how NPAS has lessened that ability so far.
The helicopter says "police" on it.
While ever that's the case, that's what I'll do because Im an attested Officer of the crown. Call me a troll if you like but I reserve the right to criticise a development which lessens my ability to catch bad people doing bad things.
While ever that's the case, that's what I'll do because Im an attested Officer of the crown. Call me a troll if you like but I reserve the right to criticise a development which lessens my ability to catch bad people doing bad things.
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So how do you know it will lessen that ability?
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Silsoe I really don't have time to be drawn into a bun fight with you.
I know your a fan because of how cross border work has improved in your region.
That's been happening elsewhere for years.
October I believe is your entry date into npas.
I'll bid you good day and safe flying.
I know your a fan because of how cross border work has improved in your region.
That's been happening elsewhere for years.
October I believe is your entry date into npas.
I'll bid you good day and safe flying.
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Morris, if you really believe your own words about the future of Police Aviation and the lessening of your ability to catch the bad guys, why don't you do the decent thing, because I'm sure that after 24 years you also know that cars, vans, motorcycles and even bicycles have 'Police' written on them?
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NPAS Motto
source: Waypoint AirMed and Rescue Magazine
................'E pluribus unum'................
................................"Out of many, one"......................................
Ring any bells?
Who said it wasn't about the money anymore
................'E pluribus unum'................
................................"Out of many, one"......................................
Ring any bells?
Who said it wasn't about the money anymore
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Article in local paper
Since the Cambs aircraft went, people starting to notice the loss of it's presence. This article is from the local paper, don't shoot me for any inaccuracies over flight times etc. mentioned. Just a reflection of the public feeling in this neck of the woods.
Cambridge News article - "Fears as use of police helicopters drops by 80 per cent"
Cambridge News article - "Fears as use of police helicopters drops by 80 per cent"
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Not really public outcry RJC, just a newspaper hack looking for a story, getting some data and asking a couple of people 'in position' who could have done something about it earlier, but chose not to, despite knowing the concerns.
All this article needs is one reply that says 'we've noticed no change in local crime' and the last nail is driven.
All this article needs is one reply that says 'we've noticed no change in local crime' and the last nail is driven.
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Not really public outcry RJC, just a newspaper hack looking for a story, getting some data and asking a couple of people 'in position' who could have done something about it earlier, but chose not to, despite knowing the concerns.
All this article needs is one reply that says 'we've noticed no change in local crime' and the last nail is driven.
All this article needs is one reply that says 'we've noticed no change in local crime' and the last nail is driven.
Often the local TV/Radio pick up the same story and put a more balanced article out a day or two later.