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UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2

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UK NPAS discussion: thread Mk 2

Old 31st Jan 2013, 18:59
  #801 (permalink)  
 
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I am surprised it does not mention that disabled people are encouraged to apply.
IIRC, one ad for pilots for the Southwest ASU did a few years ago.
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 12:55
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One of the pilots in the SE region was on a part time basis for a considerable number of years, and it worked rather well I believe.
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Old 8th Feb 2013, 12:28
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How is the inclusion of the latest region going, North West I believe?
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Old 8th Feb 2013, 15:31
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Oh great fun. In the first week shifts were lost due to Observer sickness and not enough manpower due to the reduced manning levels.

Currently 2 out of the three available aircraft are dedicated to prisoner escort. That leaves one aircraft for the whole of the NW. And the case could last for weeks.

Oh, and NPAS Dispatch are sending the equivalent of lost cat jobs.

Apart from that, everything's fine. :
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Old 8th Feb 2013, 16:24
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Currently 2 out of the three available aircraft are dedicated to prisoner escort. That leaves one aircraft for the whole of the NW. And the case could last for weeks.
I'm sure that the two aircraft have been requested by the Force that needs them and as such it will come out of that forces hours allocation, as regards the 'lost cat' jobs, all of the talking baggage that I know joined air support to fly. Cat or burglar a result is a result.
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Old 9th Feb 2013, 10:07
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The edict from NPAS management is to send a/c to everything. They're not hiding that fact.

I doubt that "results" will actually include the numbers of burglars caught. Cat or otherwise.
 
Old 9th Feb 2013, 14:36
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..... all of the talking baggage that I know joined air support to fly
I bet they speak very highly of you too

All of the highly professional Police Observer / Tactical Flight Officers I know,
joined to make a difference by providing an excellent service to their colleagues
on the ground, from the air. Not just because they love flying - that's a bonus

If yours only joined to fly, you ned to revisit your selection procedures

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Old 9th Feb 2013, 18:13
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all of the talking baggage that I know joined air support to fly
That maybe, but you eventually get fed up of people trying to send you to jobs that have no realistic chance of a result. Yes, we do turn them down, but occasionally we have to go.

And don't tell me that a negative result can be a positive result. We are talking of jobs like offenders last seen 30 minutes ago and no direction of travel, or search the city for a red van.
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Old 9th Feb 2013, 21:00
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I would rather do it from 1000 feet than in the police car below!!
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 07:35
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Quote:
..... all of the talking baggage that I know joined air support to fly


To be fair, most of the Pilots I know joined their profession to fly, and not for the vast amounts of sex and wages they get
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 08:23
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Angry

I may not have posted for ages now but I am still monitoring! This is all very sad.

When I think back to the early years of this new millenium, we still had independant but inter related units staffed by 1st class professional UEO's, enthusiastic and highly motivated Police Air observers ( can't get used to the TFO term). Our Pilots too, not only highly motivated but keen to add value to the Police Air Support scenario. UK Police Aviation was then quite literally leading the world.

Then came along NPAS and Winsor. I predicted then, what is happening now, it cost me my job, but I have no regrets, except perhaps that being able to say "I told you so" gives me no satisfaction whatsoever.

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Old 10th Feb 2013, 11:41
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Tf,

You're quite right about UK police aviation leading the way in the early years of this millenium, what we didn't know then was that the expansion of ASUs was due to the previous govt borrowing vast sums of money to buy votes. 2008 gave us a big reality check, that's what Winsor/Hutton and the rest is trying to get to grips with.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 13:52
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I suppose in the end it all depends on what value you put on efficiency and public safety.

The concept of NPAS was quite correct and if properly executed in order to increase efficiency and effectiveness, there were considerable savings to be made from economies of scale.

But the slash & burn programme as delivered, had nothing to do with that and only concentrated on saving money. NOTHING ELSE MATTERED OR COUNTED FOR ANYTHING.

Now we have a demoralised and very poorly led shadow of what went before!

With proper thought and even more so, proper leadership, it could have been so much better.

No-one who had any real knowledge of Police Air Support was allowed anywhere near NPAS in the early days, so is it any supprise now that the worms are escaping from the can?

TF
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 15:49
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I hear what you say TF, no argument there. What I would say is that after a long and faltering start NPAS now has a very capable flight ops director, chief pilot, and regional manager/s, these guys will do their very best to make good with what is available, and the ops room will learn as the jigsaw gets put together.

I do tend to think that had NPAS not happened, given the cuts to county force budgets, that ASUs would be closing and relying on buying hours from richer (relative term) neighbours anyway. Norfolk and Cambs folded before NPAS to rely on Suffolk with fewer allocated hours. Suffolk themselves had to reduce hours from 800 to 600 for the 2 years prior to NPAS due to lack of funding, and Essex (relatively wealthy) had to take on a collaboration with Kent (no ASU) to ease the cost of things.

Essex and Suffolk even then had to take on a contract with BTP to keep things together.

Whatever way you look at it, the lack of money is hitting hard.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 16:27
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AOF,
I do understand where you are coming from, and also accept that the new team at NPAS have the right pedigree to do the job properly.

I also accept that we are going through very difficult times, but at the end of the day the public and the service have to be protected. I cannot just humbly accept all of the crap that is being loaded on the service at the moment without saying loud and clear, this is not right!

To destroy something that was as effective as UK Police Air Support inc was by 2004 was very short sighted, and I for one are determined to ensure that the mistake is recorded for all to see.

The thing that upsets me most is the way that our dedicated team of observers are being treated. for without their enthusiasm and dedication to learn their art in the late 80's and 90's UK Police Aviation would never have reached the level of expertise that it did. And to now denigrate their importance to the point of declaring that they are not front line is unforgiveable. What other organisation would spend several millions of pounds on a piece of equipment and then decry the importance of key members of the operating team?

Once again this all comes down to defective leadership! The most senior Police Officers and Politicians too, have failed to realise that when you spend shed loads of money on something, it is a very false economy to then fail to ensure that those who are going to work it are happy!

Too many Senior Police Officers are frightened to stand up and say that!

Tigerfish
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 16:42
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"Too many Senior Police Officers are frightened to stand up and say that!"

That'll be the career caption effect, common in any large organisation with a promotion ladder! Too many looking up and not enough taking care of those below.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 17:00
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To be fair, most of the Pilots I know joined their profession to fly, and not for the vast amounts of sex and wages they get
Hmm...I'm obviously missing out here. On the sex anyway.

staffed by 1st class professional UEO's,
Well, some of you did.
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 17:31
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Gem, are we we thinking of the same guy?
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Old 10th Feb 2013, 17:31
  #819 (permalink)  
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To be fair some of the UEOs fell far short of the mark..!

Sleepy hollow units that werent turning a blade for days on end needed to take a long hard look at themselves and ask if they're really wasn't something they ought to be flying to..!!

without NPAS natural selection would've occurred anyway, and the weaker units fallen by the wayside once the money train stopped.
Personally I believe we'd have been stronger letting the axe fall naturally.

However Winsor is the cherry on the cake and quite likely the last straw for a lot of Officers.
 
Old 10th Feb 2013, 23:35
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There were 27 units in those days, and I do accept that a very small number were failing to keep up with the others. But in the main they were the ones who's existance was always questionable.

But never in a month of Sundays would I have included Merseyside and the Bedfordshire unit of Chilterns in that very small group.

No! Again I come back to the slash & burn mantra of saving money! The whole Holy Grail became saving money, - The one and only consideration! To hell with efficiency, moral and sustainability.

Proper leadership would have declared, " Look Guys, we have to cut our costs, so for the next 12 months we are going to take an in depth look at the whole operation. Some of you will go, - but only those who are not delivering" Go to it!

Then when the axe had to fall the guys and gals at the front end would have seen the logicality of it and worked with it. AS WE ALWAYS HAVE DONE!

But no! slash & burn, - reduce the fleet by a third! Get rid of those who know what they are about! Lets just have the puppets.

Hang on a minute, that sounds familiar! Didn't Stalin do that to the Soviet army? Get rid of anyone who disagreed?

It all comes back to leadership! Its a dirty word today.

My old Chief, KWL Steele, one of the last Trenchard men held that leadership was the most important gold standard that he looked for in his men. It didn't matter how clever they were accademicaly, if they didnt exhibit leadership skills by the bucket load, they would never get anywhere with him. He was our Chief for 25 Years, and most of us loved him. Except of course the weak "Yes Men" who bent this way & that as it seemed appropriate. They couldn't lead anyone out of a brown paper bag, and so it seems is the style of the service today!

tigerfish
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