IR(H) Options

[miket_68]

Hi.

looking for IR training early next year.

I see 3 current options.

1. £55,000 straight to a IR provider.

2. £14,000 IR(A) then TR for Twin £14,000 + IR(A) to IR(H) £20,000 = £48,000

3. £11,000 FAA IR then TR for Twin £14,000 + IR(A) to IR(H) £20,000 = £45,000

Are my figures accurate ? are the routes valid and are they any other suggestions ?

Thanks.

Mike

[HillerBee]

There's a school in Sweden with better far better figures

[jonwilson]

IR(H)

Hands on 123,

did you do it that way?

[Jet Ranger]

hm, sounds very expensive. Ask OAA Stockolm Sweden (FFS plus H) about prices...

[flight beyond sight]

The usual price in the UK is £35K + VAT Including twin type rating

[Perra]

billundaircenter.dk in denmark.

Single IR about 27500 pounds. I friend on mine will do it there in February next year.

[Peter PanPan]

How about doing it somewhere outside of the UK on a single piston engine for a couple thousand euros?

JARland is a little wider than the British Islands... Here's an updated list of EASA members: EASA - EASA Members / Links

[ec155mech]

Im sure Im not the only one that would like to see some examples from approved training organisations

so please post some links to places that offers an EASA approved IR (H) rating on piston engine whirlybirds

[Peter_CDG]

Try Home | Gestair Flying Academy ... They offer an IR-H for 19.200 Euro on a Schweizer 269

[Peter PanPan]

Originally Posted by hands_on123

IR on a single Piston? Sure the CAA will recognise that? And will an UK offshore operator recognise it also?

Yes they would for the first question. Yes as well for the second question. For the third question: who cares whether the UK Offshore operators recognizes it or not? Once you hold a single engine IR you are then able to upgrade it to a multi engine IR once you complete a ME type rating, so that is 8 hours plus 5 hours versus 55 hours of instrument instruction of which 10 need to be on a Twin (On top of the 8 hours you need anyways for the type rating provided you have never flown a Twin before) Does this need that much more debate?

[hands_on123]

Has anyone here actually done it like that? If so, did you save any money?

And don't forget... flying an single engine piston in VMC under the hood, is a lot different than flying a turbine twin in actual IMC.

[jymil]

Not convinced about the portugese outfit, I didnt find anything on their website about a HU300 IR Course. And the LongRanger in Denmark doesnt convince me either, mainly because they only have an FNPT1. Their website states about 32k EUR as cost. Doing 14.5h ME (8h TR plus 5h IR plus 1,5h checkride) for 1500 EUR/h costs you another 22k EUR, adding up to a total of 54k EUR, which is more than the 45K you have to pay for a ME IR course with FNPT2.

In general, the UK is not really attactive mainly due to the 20% VAT imposed on training. There are better options with 0% tax on training, and this makes a considerable difference for multi engine.

[Jet Ranger]

@Peter PanPan ... I absolutely agree with you, good sugestion

One more...you can do it on aeroplane, if you have PPL-A for example...for 7500 € (35 h FNPT plus 15 h aeroplane). Or, plus aditional 8000 € (or less) with PPL training (35 h) and 5 hours of Night Q...if you don`t fly aeroplane.

After everything, with type rating on ME helicopter, you need 10 h of transition training, from IR/SE(A) to ME/IR(H)!

[misterbonkers]

I'm doing the following route;

Converting CPL(H) to UK NPPL(A) minimum 3hrs plus test (already done)

Solo flying plus 20hrs dual to convert to JAA PPL(A) (of which I'll do at least 10hrs simulated IF)

UK IMC rating (15hrs Sim IF)

Night Rating (5hrs Night)

FAA PPL IR (using a lot of the above simulated IF flying towards hours)

Then I'm going to convert to JAA ME IR(H)

Circa £25k max using C150 and a none equity share in a DA40D and I could do JAA CPL(A) IR for not a lot more!

[Jet Ranger]

Yes, also good combination, (A) and (H).

[Peter PanPan]

@Jetranger & Misterbonkers

I also explored the IR bridge route a while ago, you can certainly save some bucks while becoming dual rated but it does take some careful planning and lots of time availabilty, not ideal if you're working full time. The best value option out there is in my opinion the SEIR, while it exists and those days are counted

[Bravo73]

Originally Posted by TorqueStripe

If you are aiming for offshore, why would you want to get the ME IR yourself??? For the operators it doesn't make a difference whether you show up with SE or ME. They are putting you through an extensive type rating course anyway, and the ME IR in the end is just another ticked checkbox.

That's not necessarily the case, I'm afraid. The TR obviously requires a TRI/TRE, of which the UK offshore operators have plenty of. The SEIR to MEIR upgrade requires an IRI, which the operators might not necessarily have on staff (which would mean an additional cost and hassle). Which means that with certain operator(s), there is definetely a preference for MEIRs over SEIRs.

[Torquetalk]

The never-ending SE IR(H) versus ME IR(H) discussion...

It's in the JAR-FCL regs and it will probably be in the EASA licensing regs.

A good proportion of the guys and gals that go to wok for Norsk and Helikopter Services in Norway go the FAA IR(H) then JAR-FCL SE IR(H) route. Hard to know if UK (and other European operators?) struggle to put on the SE-ME conversion course or incorporate it in the sim and TR training due to lack of available personnel to make this easy. Best ask someone in-the-know at the operators you intend to apply to.

The question might also be why an operator would see any real difference between someone who has done FNTP training plus a TR and 10 hours and test in a squirrel (JAR), compared to someone who has done FNPT training, 40-odd hours IR in an R22 or similar, more FNPT training, then 15 or more hours single engine (FAA-JAR)? One has a bit of experience in a twin that they won't be flying offshore (and barely knows that aircraft), the other has a handful hours more IR time likely a bit of GPS approach practice. When faced with the first MPH/complex type, both will have their work cut-out.

TT

[jymil]

@TorqueStripe: Let me guess .. you work for Bristow. All other operators seem to require a ME IR as entry ticket. If you already have a ME type rating, then it is cheaper for the operator to pay for an additional one (8 vs 5 hrs).

Also, if you paid 20k EUR for the JAR SE IR conversion course, you´ve probably spent 10k EUR on the FAA IR rating before. This adds up to about the same price as directly doing their SE IR course.

[Peter_CDG]

I just found 2 other SE IR-H course providers; Helibravo Helicopters and Nortávia, Transportes Aéreos SA

They do a full IR on a R44