Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

What's New With The Civil Tiltrotor?

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

What's New With The Civil Tiltrotor?

Old 9th Oct 2014, 05:22
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bend, OR
Age: 36
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Tiltrotors?

Hello everyone,

So I started on the long road to being a commercial rotorcraft pilot and I had a question for everyone.

Does anyone know who currently has the Bell 609/Agusta 609 on order?

From what I have heard they are supposed to get their FAA certification next year and I am trying to set myself up to end up in one down the road once I build (a lot) more flight time.

Also, if anyone on the forums has worked in the 609 program would a dual-rating really be beneficial to have on the resume vs the time I could build in rotorcraft over that same duration?

Thanks everyone.

Look forward to seeing you all in the sky.
Droolguy is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 14:52
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Below Escape Velocity
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Usually press release statements on certification dates are optimistic. This one says 2017. I'd guess 2018 earliest. Supposedly 70 are on order with Lady Gaga and Michael Bloomberg both on the order list (has anyone ever seen Lady Gaga and Michael Bloomberg together?). Probably many of the rest are corporate VIP transport or options.

It's a powered-lift rating, and the only way to get that now is flying the V-22 in the U.S. Marine Corps or the U.S. Air Force (soon the JMSDF or the IDF), or working for AW.

AW609 Tiltrotor Completes Autorotation Tests | Aviation International News
Um... lifting... is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 15:38
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tax-land.
Posts: 909
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
The last one is the best solution.
tottigol is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 18:04
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bend, OR
Age: 36
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, it's an aircraft that you can only get certified on by flying it, but you can't fly it without being certified in it.

This is the issue I am running into, no one really knows the proper career path to follow to end up in tiltrotors.

Even our chief instructors in the area are scratching their heads... helicopter pilots in the 15,000+ hour region who are well connected in the industry.

I emailed AW to try and get some clarity on how one would go about getting a rating for them, just waiting on a response back.

I'll post it here if they respond.
Droolguy is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 19:46
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: daworld
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I guess you would do your flight training through AW with their Instructors and they would give you the type rating?

Just need the FAA to allow the AW Instructors to do that, and I think the FAA are behind in dealing with the Tilt Rotor concept, regulations wise.
noooby is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 19:54
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tax-land.
Posts: 909
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Droolguy, You could do worse than join the NAVY/USMC as an officer, then join the Naval Aviation training program, qualify on tiltrotors and have an assured career on the TR.
Other than that the FARs Part 61 is quite clear to the regard.
tottigol is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 20:17
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Below Escape Velocity
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Several people do indeed hold FAA powered-lift ratings. and I have seen the rating, so they are issued. The few I know of personally are all active-duty officers, though there are probably others who have worked on the V-22 and / or the AW609 at Bell/Boeing or AW.

Until the AW609 is certified, I would be willing to wager there will be no civil courses offered. And that's 3+ years away. That's not to say that I think that there isn't a civil course 'under development', but nobody's going to share that info until it's ready to be offered.

I'd further be willing to wager that the first civil certifications will go to pilots with several thousand hours in their logbooks, whether that be rotorcraft, airplane, or both. They'll work (and probably already do work) for the customers who have ordered the machines. Those lead customers will pay the freight for the first courses. That's how it works.

Since the contractor is Agusta-Westland and they operate in-house training, and they're in the helicopter business, they will probably promote training staff from within and perhaps augment that with former military pilots with tiltrotor experience as their initial instructional staff. The USMC found adding some additional ME airplane to the initial training syllabus was valuable, and they also discovered that experienced airplane pilots had and easier time with some of the skill sets than experienced helicopter pilots (and vice versa).

In the meantime, you probably should focus on putting a couple thousand hours in your logbook. Your first paying job will not likely be in the tiltrotor.

tott, I think you may be assuming our candidate is: American; young enough to be picked up for an officer accession program; qualified for same; and willing. Perhaps he is, and perhaps he isn't.

Last edited by Um... lifting...; 9th Oct 2014 at 21:06.
Um... lifting... is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 20:52
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,126
Received 314 Likes on 202 Posts
Drool:
Based on the syllabus the USMC uses for its flight training track, getting some multi engine time/certs would be a good thing to add to your kit bad along with your helo rating. The USMC found that as their initial syllabus from zero to V-22 pilot evolved, that they emphasized the Multi Engine a bit more than in the initial cut.

Been a few years for me, so that's a rough suggestion.
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 21:22
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bend, OR
Age: 36
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the replies everyone. As for the military, I did eight years and a couple deployments in the Army. Trying not to go back. I started on the path to being a helicopter pilot so that I could have a job that I enjoyed doing that challenged me, military has too many bad memories for me to ever be enjoyable.

Still waiting on that reply from AW.
Droolguy is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2014, 23:25
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tax-land.
Posts: 909
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
AW replied to you in this forum, just need to read between the lines.
If you are going about it the FAA way, there needs to be an approved course, however that TR course cannot exist without the aircraft certification by the relative aviation authority.
Believe me, I know...
tottigol is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 00:35
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bend, OR
Age: 36
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I see. Well then I suppose I will be working to rack up time waiting for the FAA. Thanks again everyone.
Droolguy is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 16:12
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 57
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have the Comm PL rating and still fly the Osprey as a civilian. There is no path currently on the civilian side for gaining this rating, because there exists no aircraft to operate. About the only thing that comes close is being a production test pilot at the V-22 plant in Amarillo. I've been flying the Osprey nearly 10 years now, I'll be glad to answer questions you may have about tiltrotors if you have them.
mckpave is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2014, 06:12
  #93 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: UAE
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Monday, December 1, 2014
The AW609 Tilt Rotor: 2014’s Best Ride  

By Ernie Stephens, Editor-at-Large
In mid-February of this year, I received a call from the publisher of this magazine asking me the most ridiculous question I have ever been asked in the 25 years that I have been a pilot: “How would you like to be trained to fly the AgustaWestland AW609 Tilt Rotor?”
As it turned out, I would be the first person outside of the manufacturer’s own pilots to fly the current iteration of the civilian tilt rotor, the experimental aircraft that can fly like a helicopter then reconfigure to fly like an airplane. The offer was extra exciting because I was also one of the first people to fly the hybrid Airbus X3 (formerly the Eurocopter X3), and probably the only person in world who has flown both.
(Left) The author in flight at the controls of N609TR. Photo by Dan Wells, AW609 test pilot
(Middle) A slow, steep approach in the AW609. Nacelles are at 87 degrees to slow the aircraft during decent. Photo by Ernie Stephens
(Right) Adrian Board, pres. and CEO of AgustaWestland Tilt Rotor, presents Ernie Stephens with an official AW609 ball cap, post flight. Courtesy of AgustaWestland Tilt Rotor Co.

Being allowed to fly the AW609 was going to take more than the permission of Adrian Board, the president and CEO of the AgustaWestland Tilt Rotor Co (AWTRC), the wholly owned subsidiary of AgustaWestland created to focus on the AW609. I would have to get permission from the FAA to even touch the controls because the aircraft falls under the category of an experimental aircraft to be used for research and development. Therefore, it cannot be flown by anyone other than the company’s pilots “to conduct aircraft operations as a matter of research or to determine if an idea warrants further development.” But hold on, because it got more complicated than that.
First, the FAA had to come to Arlington Municipal Airport, the home of AWTRC, and recertify the tilt rotor as an experimental aircraft in the crew training category since I am not an employee of the company. It also meant that I had to be officially trained as second-in-command aboard the aircraft before being allowed to fly it. And that was fine with me. Normally, when I do an evaluation flight for Rotor & Wing, I get a thorough technical briefing – usually between 90 minutes and two hours, depending on the complexity of the aircraft - from one of the design engineers or company pilots before climbing aboard. But to get two full days of what amounted to a transition course, including simulator training, followed by official authorization to serve as a second-in-command of the AW609 was a nice situation.
The May 2014 issue of Rotor & Wing recounts the way the AW609 handles throughout its full range of configurations and during various maneuvers. But space limitations being what they are, I couldn’t write too much about what I learned about the aircraft’s systems. Here is what they taught me:
Wing and Stabilizers

http://www.aviationtoday.com/Assets/...g_AW609_3.jpeg
The AgustaWestland Tilt Rotor serial #0001 shows off its new paint job at Heli-Expo 2014 in Anneheim, California.
It is one of three prototypes.
Image courtesy of AgustaWestland Tilt Rotor Co.The 34-ft wing is attached to the top of the fuselage and sweeps several degrees forward. The trailing edge has flaperons – surfaces that double as flaps and ailerons. A manual control for the flaperons resides on the instrument panel, but is only used as a manual override to the automatic system that handles them under normal conditions.
Bringing up the rear of the 609 is a high-mounted horizontal stabilizer with an elevator atop a rudderless vertical stabilizer.
In helicopter mode, the proprotors will provide lift. The flaperons will be at a 66-degree down angle to reduce the amount of wing area exposed to the proprotor’s downwash. And since movement of the 609 will be zero, or at a hover-taxi speeds, the horizontal and vertical stabilizers will serve no real function on a calm day.
In airplane mode the wings provide the bulk of the lift, and the flaperons provide roll moments and additional lift at slow speeds. The vertical stab will help keep everything in line.


Nacelles

At the end of each wing is a nacelle that houses a Pratt and Whitney Canada PT6C-67A turbine engine. A pylon protruding from the wing serves as the primary load-bearing member for the weight of the engine, gearboxes and proprotor system. It is also the portion of the wing structure that the nacelles rotate around.
In helicopter mode, the nacelles will be somewhere between 75 degrees from horizontal, which takes the aircraft into translational lift speeds, to 95 degrees, which is just enough aft vectoring to create a braking force while on approach, or brisk reward flight when in a hover. An 87-degree angle, however, is where the aircraft prefers to hover because it counteracts the aerodynamic forces that tend to make the ship drift slowly backwards. When the nacelles are tilted beyond 75 degrees, the 609 is virtually an airplane. The farther the forward tilt, the greater the forward airspeed.
In either mode, an automatic system will “discourage” the pilot from exceeding the tilt angle/speed schedule.


Engines

A drive shaft connecting the power outputs of the engines runs through the wing’s pylon. So, when one engine is running, both proprotors will turn. If both quit, the 609 will autorotate.
Looking at the nacelles from the side while in airplane mode, the engines lay horizontally in the lower section of the nacelle and, of course, they stand on end when in helicopter mode. To keep the engine oil flowing, the engineers created two reservoirs, so that one or the other will be at the engine’s lowest point through its range of rotation.


Metamorphosis: N609TR transitions from a hover to its top-speed configuration.
Courtesy of AgustaWestland Tilt Rotor Co.
Proprotor System

The 3-bladed proprotor system occupies the top have of the nacelle when viewed in airplane mode, and is driven by a gearbox powered by a shaft coming from the front of the engine. When vertical, blade pitch is controlled by an assembly that looks and works like the swashplate and connecting rods in any helicopter. And the same blade pitch that gives the AW609 lift when the nacelles are vertical gives it thrust when horizontal.
To slide left, displacing the center stick to the left will add pitch to the right proprotor, dragging the aircraft to the left, and vice versa. Pedal inputs rotate the 609 about its yaw axis by creating what amounts to a forward cyclic input in one proprotor set and an aft input in the other.
One thing I can’t emphasis enough is the adrenaline rush I received when I looked out the window and saw those nacelles rotating, followed by the mix of vertical lift and fast-forward feels. What a ride!
Aviation Today :: The AW609 Tilt Rotor: 2014?s Best Ride??

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 5th Mar 2015 at 05:48. Reason: Image too large for Rotorheads
21stCen is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2014, 16:11
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Sounds like Ernie enjoyed himself.

Still no sign of the third prototype. #3 & 4 were originally scheduled to fly in 2002, with #3's departure gradually pushed back in line with the program slippage, the most recent prediction being "the end of 2014." Must make for some interesting obsolescence (/supply chain) management!

Also interesting to see talk of an 'upgraded version of the Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engine" with "the latest in technological developments." More power, or just the replacement of the EEC's out-of-production chips?

I/C
Ian Corrigible is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 16:25
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: UK
Age: 33
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A good looking ship certainly.

I didn't realise it didn't have a rudder before now. I wonder how yaw works in aeroplane mode.
Paradaxos is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2014, 17:24
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The proprotors provide differential thrust to give yaw control which is also roll control in vertical mode.
exwessex is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2015, 17:14
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
BobbieH hinted at the time that something had occurred, but no additional info was ever forthcoming...

I/C

(Edited to add: a second PPRuNer, who shall remain nameless, posted to say that they were surprised a rumored AW609 prop-strike incident last fall hadn't been discussed on the forum. This post - which has since been deleted - would appear to give credence to BobbieH's post from last August.)

Last edited by Ian Corrigible; 20th Jan 2015 at 19:19. Reason: Edited for context following deletion of prior post
Ian Corrigible is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2015, 05:09
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 75
Posts: 4,378
Received 24 Likes on 14 Posts
AgustaWestland and Bristow Sign Exclusive Agreement for the AW609 TiltRotor Programme


Joint announcement made at Heli-Expo with real aircraft ‘on-static’ public premier

• Addressing concepts around operations, regulations, support, configurations, commercial aspects towards certification
• Preparing introduction into the market as the AW609 industrialization phase starts
• Almost 60 customers have already chosen the AW609 globally to perform several missions

Finmeccanica – AgustaWestland and Bristow announced today the signing of a platform development agreement for the AW609 TiltRotor programme. The announcement was made at Heli-Expo (Orlando, FL) on the occasion of the ‘on static’ public premiere of a real AW609 aircraft at the US exhibition, featuring a dedicated Bristow/Eastern Airways paint scheme.

The development agreement envisages AgustaWestland and Bristow working closely on a number of activities in support of AW609 program development addressing concepts around operations, regulations, maintenance, configuration optimization, as well as identifying possible areas of enhancement or modifications.

Under the agreement, AgustaWestland and Bristow will work to support the development of oil & gas and search and rescue dedicated configurations and capabilities. The companies would provide contribution to flying activities towards aircraft maturity and to address commercial aspects for future AW609 acquisitions.

The signing of this agreement sets a major milestone for the development of the first commercial tiltrotor towards FAA certification, which is expected to be achieved in 2017. This exclusive agreement further strengthens the long established partnership between AgustaWestland and Bristow, a prime global operator of the AW139 and the AW189 covering offshore transport and SAR operational requirements. By joining forces through their respective expertise and know-how, AgustaWestland and Bristow are moving towards a marketing and operational preparation stage as the AW609 program enters its industrialization phase.

As demand for integrated point-to-point transportation grows, Bristow has made strategic investments in Airnorth and Eastern Airways, combining fixed wing and helicopter transportation into a one-stop solution for customers. The agreement to further develop the potential capabilities of the AW609 marks a significant step towards the production of one aircraft type that will provide an ideal transportation solution for offshore travel in the future.

“We see tremendous opportunities for this aircraft for our clients who are flying to more remote and hostile environments,” said Bristow President and CEO Jonathan Baliff. “With its vertical lift and landing capabilities combined with increased speed, extended range and airline-style amenities, Bristow will be able to provide more value to clients by offering complete logistics solutions with one aircraft type that will take them faster and farther offshore.”

With more than 1,100 flight hours logged by the first two prototypes and two more aircraft coming, the AW609 programme is continuing to benefit from a range of enhancements to maximize the aircraft’s performance and mission capabilities. Almost 60 customers have already chosen the AW609 globally to perform several missions such as offshore transport, patrol and search and rescue, executive/private transport and government roles.

Bristow Group Inc. is the leading provider of helicopter services to the worldwide offshore energy industry based on the number of aircraft operated and one of two helicopter service providers to the offshore energy industry with global operations. The company has major transportation operations in the North Sea, Nigeria and the U.S. Gulf of Mexico, and in most of the other major offshore oil and gas producing regions of the world, including Australia, Brazil, Canada, Russia and Trinidad. For more information, visit the company's website at Offshore Helicopter - Helicopter Transport ? Helicopter Services ? Transport Helicopters - bristowgroup.com.
John Eacott is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2015, 01:12
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 5,880
Received 362 Likes on 192 Posts
Bristow AW609

AW609 for Darwin?

Bristow Commits To Being Partner and Customer for AW609 Civil Tiltrotor | Business Aviation: Aviation International News
megan is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2015, 04:04
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hobe Sound, Florida
Posts: 949
Received 32 Likes on 26 Posts
Interesting Chart

I found this AW Report online, describing flight test results. The chart on page 22 is intriguing.

http://www.sfte2013.com/files/78635976.pdf
JohnDixson is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.