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RNZAF AW109s arrive

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RNZAF AW109s arrive

Old 27th May 2011, 22:40
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Cool RNZAF AW109s arrive

New Zealand unveils new AW109s

I am particularly impressed with the (under)statement "The arrival of the AW109 is a significant and exciting step in the upgrade and replacement of the air force's rotary and fixed-wing platforms". Considering it replaces the Bell 47, I'd say that is a quantum leap

The Royal New Zealand Air Force has unveiled three new AgustaWestland AW109 light utility helicopters, which will replace its Bell 47 Sioux for pilot training.

"The arrival of the AW109 is a significant and exciting step in the upgrade and replacement of the air force's rotary and fixed-wing platforms," Air Vice Marshal Peter Stockwell, chief of the air force, says. "This will see the RNZAF equipped with the capability necessary to operate even more effectively and efficiently."

The primary role of the AW109s will be to prepare pilots for the air force's NH Industries NH90 transports or the navy's Kaman Aerospace SH-2G Seasprites.

Aside from training, the new aircraft will also be used in a light utility role to support other military services and government agencies.


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Old 28th May 2011, 00:03
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Wonder when the first one will get rolled up ? That is not a helicopter to learn to fly in
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Old 28th May 2011, 03:46
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funny choice

must agree ,the old stale bells worked fine,they turned down squirrels from Denmark and some fool chose the NH90 / MRH90 qty 8,to keep the ozzies happy, Lynx would have given us twice as many aircraft and twice as much usage.
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Old 28th May 2011, 21:24
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What kind of buffoon selects retractable twin for ab initio rotary wing training? Surely the sane option would be AS350s or Koalas or similar with a transition to the complex models?
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Old 28th May 2011, 21:40
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Bell 47 to Augusta 109 in one step......you can call that to upgrade
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Old 28th May 2011, 22:03
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What kind of buffoon selects retractable twin for ab initio rotary wing training?


A few B2's or B3's with VEMD installed would have made much more sense

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 29th May 2011 at 08:53. Reason: Libellous accusation removed
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Old 29th May 2011, 00:26
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Perhaps all those single engine hours in the logbook not helping pilots punch out into the multi-ifr world might have had something to do with the decision.

Then again, why not. It is a helicopter after all, you could learn to fly on a AW139 if you really wanted to (or had the $$ to).

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 29th May 2011 at 08:53. Reason: Libellous quote removed
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Old 29th May 2011, 11:21
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If they only start one engine and leave the SASes off and the gear down it will be OK.

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Old 29th May 2011, 11:29
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The decision might have something to do with
Aside from training, the new aircraft will also be used in a light utility role to support other military services and government agencies.
Besides, they look good.
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Old 29th May 2011, 11:45
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It seems that many on this site havnt grasped the peace time equipment priorities of most military around the world, it can be expresed in the following phrase. "Toys For The Boys", it has nothing to do with whats really needed.
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Old 29th May 2011, 12:09
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Au contraire, it seems that many politicians and civilians have not understood Caesar's "Si vis pacem, para bellum".

You equip the military for your worst case scenario. If you cut back on the capabilites, cut back on your (inter)national ambitions.

But don't expect other countries to bail you out. They suffer the same dire economic situation, after all.
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Old 30th May 2011, 13:27
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What kind of buffoon selects retractable twin for ab initio rotary wing training?
The ADF maybe heading down that route with its HATS program
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Old 30th May 2011, 17:53
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The Irish and the Germans also do their initial helicopter training on a twin, the EC135.
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Old 30th May 2011, 18:08
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Just how many Jetrangers could they have bought for the same dough? I'd hate to pay the bill for a hard landing in one of these fine looking puppies.

I guess maximum height for a helo driver will have to be lowered as well..
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Old 30th May 2011, 21:32
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Serf, I can understand the Germans would use the 135 as they have the money and it's not retractable.

But is it really necessary fort he taxpayer to be funding the flying, ownership and maintenance costs of a complex high performance retractable twin when teaching effects of controls to a spotty faced teenager?

I do understand that part of my post on this is fueled by acute envy!
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Old 31st May 2011, 01:26
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The governments been training scores of spotty teenagers since 02 courtesy
of the student loan program in R22s and 300s.

They can all join the RNZAF now with their 150hours.

I heard of a few doing a full license and then joining the military
because that was the only flying job they could find.

They can just ride co-jo after boot camp to get recurrent
and then figure it out by themselves.

And yes being paid by the taxpayer the whole time.
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Old 31st May 2011, 02:59
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Nuthin, that sounds like bs!

Student loans are not free - they have to be paid back.

The RNZAF isn't nterested in any old 150h CPLs. They recruit either from ab-initio in the usual fashion and train basic fixed wing then select from there into different paths including rotary wing. That or re-recruit ex-mil types.
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Old 1st Jun 2011, 10:17
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Having done a bit of flying with ze germans in Buckeburg on the EC135 and a bit of an overview / study of their training system, it works very well. Their trainees do not do any fixed wing flying at all - YES, THE FIRST AIRCRAFT THAT THEY FLY IS THE EC135. So what if it is twin? Their accident rate is far less than nearly all civil flying schools and other foreign militaries and they do some pretty funky flying in those EC135's as well.

Additionally, have the critics of the "Learning to fly on such a expensive bit of kit is a waste of tax payers money" considered that simulators are used? The German trainees spend approx 15 hours in the sim prior to their first flight - the system works bloody well and is much faster than most other militaries. Mind you, I guess we should expect that, being German and all.

The A109 will serve the K one W ones very well. Good buy and decision I believe. A training fleet that can be employed in other C&L roles as well, imagine that? Efficiency is golden.
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Old 3rd Jun 2011, 02:26
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RNZAF AW109s arrive

Makes perfect sense to me. If you're a small Air Force (read boutique Air Force, as I have heard them described) then you need maximum value and utility for your dollar. Don't forget, the Kiwi's train what, 5 -10 rotary pilots a year? Hardly worth having a specific aircraft for that, any flying school wouild go broke with those numbers. Far more sense in a cash strapped country to get some machines that have a dual purpose if not quadruple! I have no comment on the choice of AW109, any light to medium twin would have done, I'm sure. Perhaps they looked at the RAN model or just got a good deal? As for retractable complications etc, I and many others learnt to fly on the PC9, no wheels up landings due to many, many defences, not an issue.
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Old 3rd Jun 2011, 08:32
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the helicopter in the photo seems to be a Power, not the "S" which is the certification reference for the Grand...
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