New Pediatric Air Ambulance
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The Childrens Air Ambulance - Info??
Try this thread!
Try this thread!
Try this:
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/..._ambulance.pdf
Charities Commission are watching them closely after 'reminding them how to run a charity properly'.
In my personal opinion, it would seem they are are a bit short in the "due diligence" department and also in the aviation side of things. Not enough research done to make this a viable option.
Currently they are barely keeping their financial heads above water in that a vast proportion of their intake is being spent on salaries and expenses???
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/..._ambulance.pdf
Charities Commission are watching them closely after 'reminding them how to run a charity properly'.
In my personal opinion, it would seem they are are a bit short in the "due diligence" department and also in the aviation side of things. Not enough research done to make this a viable option.
Currently they are barely keeping their financial heads above water in that a vast proportion of their intake is being spent on salaries and expenses???
Be careful, the two projects are not related!
It's tough enough in the air ambulance world as it is, without - at best - do-gooders adding another clamour to the cash call. At worst, they're crooks who never really intend to launch a service.
To have two lots doing it only adds to my suspicions.
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Air Ambulance is Air Ambulance.
In the UK, the pilots have the requisite skills whatever the situation.
The volunteer doctors have the requiste medical skills and experience to deal with any situation.
Why change?
In the UK, the pilots have the requisite skills whatever the situation.
The volunteer doctors have the requiste medical skills and experience to deal with any situation.
Why change?
But similarly pointless. This is a service proposal that is simply not needed. The sceptic in me says the combining of "children" and "air ambulance" is nothing more than an attempt to persuade people to part with their hard earned.
It's tough enough in the air ambulance world as it is, without - at best - do-gooders adding another clamour to the cash call. At worst, they're crooks who never really intend to launch a service.
To have two lots doing it only adds to my suspicions.
It's tough enough in the air ambulance world as it is, without - at best - do-gooders adding another clamour to the cash call. At worst, they're crooks who never really intend to launch a service.
To have two lots doing it only adds to my suspicions.
Sydney, Australia seems to have been able to 'support' a dedicated service since 1989: Telstra Child Flight
Isn't there the potential for a similar service in the UK?
Because Australia is big with not very many Air Ambulances. The UK is small with plenty of them.
I couldn't put it better than 'ropes away' from the thread covering the 'other lot'
"My advice to anyone thinking about donating money to this would be to think again. There are far too many air ambulances already and the addition of a dedicated airframe just for flying one group of patients is simply not needed. In fact, it's not the airframe that has to be specially adapted, most existing aircraft are suitable--it is the experience that the medical team brings to paediatric care that matters. Whether you are in an air ambulance, SAR helicopter, MCA helicopter or even a fixed wing aircraft, the medical team brings the expertise and equipment with them.
There is far too much duplication of effort regarding HEMS services and adding another airframe to the mix does little more than diverting valuable charity money away from those organisations already supplying services. It's really weird that most people look at the helicopter as the ultimate life saving tool when, in fact, it's a combination of a flexible transport platform and the team it brings that is the true life saving tool.
Bottom Line: save your money and spend wisely."
I couldn't put it better than 'ropes away' from the thread covering the 'other lot'
"My advice to anyone thinking about donating money to this would be to think again. There are far too many air ambulances already and the addition of a dedicated airframe just for flying one group of patients is simply not needed. In fact, it's not the airframe that has to be specially adapted, most existing aircraft are suitable--it is the experience that the medical team brings to paediatric care that matters. Whether you are in an air ambulance, SAR helicopter, MCA helicopter or even a fixed wing aircraft, the medical team brings the expertise and equipment with them.
There is far too much duplication of effort regarding HEMS services and adding another airframe to the mix does little more than diverting valuable charity money away from those organisations already supplying services. It's really weird that most people look at the helicopter as the ultimate life saving tool when, in fact, it's a combination of a flexible transport platform and the team it brings that is the true life saving tool.
Bottom Line: save your money and spend wisely."
I quickly scanned the threads and thought this one said Pedantic Air Ambulance. Shame it doesn't, really, I'd know just the pilot for them.
If the charity can fund a dedicated air ambulance for emergency transfers of very young patients then great, I know I'd have been grateful for something like that once a long time ago. I know it seems like doubling up with air ambulances but if air ambulances can be left for emergency work and these guys can do, what might be very specialist, transfers 24 hours a day then all the best to them.
If the charity can fund a dedicated air ambulance for emergency transfers of very young patients then great, I know I'd have been grateful for something like that once a long time ago. I know it seems like doubling up with air ambulances but if air ambulances can be left for emergency work and these guys can do, what might be very specialist, transfers 24 hours a day then all the best to them.
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As has been pointed out, the UK has a very good coverage of Ambulance Helicopters but the point is that the funding is all charitable and extremely finite.
All of our our Air Ambulance crews (be they pilots, Docs, Nurses etc) are extremely talented and dedicated people, their talents are very well utilised right along the broad spectrum of medical emergencies and meet the requirement of the service they provide, the last thing we need is for their skills to be diluted.
To put into perspective, would you really want ground ambulances and paramedics to be split into serving adult and pedriatic needs?
The sensible answer is no.
The main objective of any Air Ambulance Service is to "Scoop and Run", get the patient airborne and to the nearest hospital capable of giving the patient the best possible treatment.
To argue otherwise shows an enormous ignorance of what both helicopter and fixed wing air am.bulances are there for
All of our our Air Ambulance crews (be they pilots, Docs, Nurses etc) are extremely talented and dedicated people, their talents are very well utilised right along the broad spectrum of medical emergencies and meet the requirement of the service they provide, the last thing we need is for their skills to be diluted.
To put into perspective, would you really want ground ambulances and paramedics to be split into serving adult and pedriatic needs?
The sensible answer is no.
The main objective of any Air Ambulance Service is to "Scoop and Run", get the patient airborne and to the nearest hospital capable of giving the patient the best possible treatment.
To argue otherwise shows an enormous ignorance of what both helicopter and fixed wing air am.bulances are there for
This charity is clearly best left alone, but please dont allow it to denegrate the role of a neonatal transfer system.
In the UK there is probably more need to paediatric rotary interhospital transfers than adult. The inability to transfer is also more likely to kill than in the case of adults. And paed secondary rotary transfers have been proven to save lives which, I regret to say, HEMS has not.
Secondary transfers require different medical crew and equipment from primary, and using HEMS is always a compromise. so by all means support HEMS but dont rubbish secondaty, and in particular neonatal secondary.
In the UK there is probably more need to paediatric rotary interhospital transfers than adult. The inability to transfer is also more likely to kill than in the case of adults. And paed secondary rotary transfers have been proven to save lives which, I regret to say, HEMS has not.
Secondary transfers require different medical crew and equipment from primary, and using HEMS is always a compromise. so by all means support HEMS but dont rubbish secondaty, and in particular neonatal secondary.
There are currently THREE groups proposing a Children's Air Ambulance Service in the UK although one is said to be 'resting' rather than actively fundraising. Children's AA based Torquay but originally intended to operate out London using an S-76 by preference. The new NETS UK apparently based on an Australian model based in Yorkshire that was a Childrens AA a few months ago until that model name was clearly being dissed by the rest of the AA and the third sleeping model is called Lucy's - I only heard of that one this week. It is a charity.
The industry in general is anti this prospect of a specialist machine cherry picking the relatively few CAA type operations but requiring just as much money [if not more] to exist and yet sitting on the ground longer sucking in charity money waiting for an opportunity that is unlikely to be on the doorstep [and therefore likely to be taken by the nearest helicopter anyway].
Children's AA are quite successful in the USA but they are usually cash cows and their passengers or their insurance companies pay for the privilige.
The industry in general is anti this prospect of a specialist machine cherry picking the relatively few CAA type operations but requiring just as much money [if not more] to exist and yet sitting on the ground longer sucking in charity money waiting for an opportunity that is unlikely to be on the doorstep [and therefore likely to be taken by the nearest helicopter anyway].
Children's AA are quite successful in the USA but they are usually cash cows and their passengers or their insurance companies pay for the privilige.
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Sorry if this offends
If you want 24/7 all weather transfer, the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy and HM Coastguard contract (CHC) crews offer a service that no commercial operation will ever match for availability, response time and weather penetration. The occurence of pedeatric transfer requirements is not sufficient to justify a dedicated machine. Much better to spend about 10% (number plucked out of air) of the cost on supporting the specialist medical staff required to enable these crews (who are allowed to do all sorts of things that ordinary commercial crews are not) to deliver the service sought.
In other words; this is bollocks, apply some common sense.
Iain
Retired last week
If you want 24/7 all weather transfer, the Royal Air Force, Royal Navy and HM Coastguard contract (CHC) crews offer a service that no commercial operation will ever match for availability, response time and weather penetration. The occurence of pedeatric transfer requirements is not sufficient to justify a dedicated machine. Much better to spend about 10% (number plucked out of air) of the cost on supporting the specialist medical staff required to enable these crews (who are allowed to do all sorts of things that ordinary commercial crews are not) to deliver the service sought.
In other words; this is bollocks, apply some common sense.
Iain
Retired last week
Last edited by Sven Sixtoo; 12th May 2011 at 22:01.
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Mmmmm ...
Well a dedicated NETS machine for the UK .... Excellent.
I have/had been involved with HEMS on and off since 1976 and in fact did my first NETS transfer here in Melbourne Australia back then (Angel of Mercy a BH206) it was at that time a first in the world service.
I have over the years tried to follow developments in this area of HEMS with interest .... the technology of keeping these "skinned rabbits" viable has been incredible with babies as small as 500-650 gm now surviving to become 'normal' healthy human beings without the problems of those early days (ie retinal damage/blindness etc) is in my opinion to be welcomed.
Now I see from some posts above that there is a view that any aeromedically equipped helicopter should be able to carry out a NETS mission ... that may be true for an emergency pediatric trauma BUT for NETS the machine needs to be configured very differently AND needs to be made available in a different manner to the normal HEMS requirement.
The skills required for NICU/NETS are as a general rule not available at all hospitals even though they (the hospitals) may have a midwifery unit in situ.
I do not wish to go into the politics of how this is likely to happen in the UK as quite frankly I have been removed from the UK for too long to know exactly how this service will/should be implemented.
BUT the fact is NETS is different to 'regular' HEMS and does require a different set of protocols (attitudes) to be in place .....
I wish it good luck .... I have before seen the 'sling and arrows' of outrageous jealousy ruin a NETS service and leave some very vulnerable members of our community in jeopardy .... I hope this does not happen in the UK.
Well a dedicated NETS machine for the UK .... Excellent.
I have/had been involved with HEMS on and off since 1976 and in fact did my first NETS transfer here in Melbourne Australia back then (Angel of Mercy a BH206) it was at that time a first in the world service.
I have over the years tried to follow developments in this area of HEMS with interest .... the technology of keeping these "skinned rabbits" viable has been incredible with babies as small as 500-650 gm now surviving to become 'normal' healthy human beings without the problems of those early days (ie retinal damage/blindness etc) is in my opinion to be welcomed.
Now I see from some posts above that there is a view that any aeromedically equipped helicopter should be able to carry out a NETS mission ... that may be true for an emergency pediatric trauma BUT for NETS the machine needs to be configured very differently AND needs to be made available in a different manner to the normal HEMS requirement.
The skills required for NICU/NETS are as a general rule not available at all hospitals even though they (the hospitals) may have a midwifery unit in situ.
I do not wish to go into the politics of how this is likely to happen in the UK as quite frankly I have been removed from the UK for too long to know exactly how this service will/should be implemented.
BUT the fact is NETS is different to 'regular' HEMS and does require a different set of protocols (attitudes) to be in place .....
I wish it good luck .... I have before seen the 'sling and arrows' of outrageous jealousy ruin a NETS service and leave some very vulnerable members of our community in jeopardy .... I hope this does not happen in the UK.
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That's well said spinwing.
There are too many with the "We've always done it this way so it must be OK" mentality.
If it leads to a service which complements the Air Ambulances then why not support it?
There are too many with the "We've always done it this way so it must be OK" mentality.
If it leads to a service which complements the Air Ambulances then why not support it?
I can only speak for England and Wales, as Scotland HEMS (AA) is run by the Scottish government.
The industry is littered with individual AA 'charities' trying to do their bit for the 'local' community. It is not joined up and thus wastes an enormous amount of public charitable money as a result. Very very few of them do night. The only common factor (ish) is that Bond do "most" of the servicing/a/c/spares. Ironically the motoring organisation The AA, tried to pull it together at one stage but failed miserably.
To populate the map further with a specialist HEMS/AA operation, is folly. There isn't the catchment area, nor the demand to keep this function alive for more than a few months (even in the cheapest twin on the market) The suggestion that S76's may be considered is financial suicide.
Once more - this particular charity has started on the wrong foot and my feeling is it will (like PAN news' comments) fade away like the other two.
The industry is littered with individual AA 'charities' trying to do their bit for the 'local' community. It is not joined up and thus wastes an enormous amount of public charitable money as a result. Very very few of them do night. The only common factor (ish) is that Bond do "most" of the servicing/a/c/spares. Ironically the motoring organisation The AA, tried to pull it together at one stage but failed miserably.
To populate the map further with a specialist HEMS/AA operation, is folly. There isn't the catchment area, nor the demand to keep this function alive for more than a few months (even in the cheapest twin on the market) The suggestion that S76's may be considered is financial suicide.
Once more - this particular charity has started on the wrong foot and my feeling is it will (like PAN news' comments) fade away like the other two.
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Speaking from some ignorance, but it seems that part of the argument is that there is a need for specialised neonatal transport, and that the requirements for this are different enough that a regular HEMS setup won't work. However, whether there is enough need to justify an entire separate machine and organisation to go with it (plus the watering down of charity income for everyone that goes with that) is unproven.
Would it be possible to add to an existing charity, perhaps by modifying the fit so that some extra equipement can be slotted in as needed, and some extra staff are added to the books be a better option? That way, you get the capability for when it's needed, presumably at a fraction of the cost, and you don't dilute the fundraising. I don't know enough about the equipment required for NETS vs. HEMS to know whether this is even possible, but it seems like it's at least worth investigating. Perhaps an opportunity for some tie-in with the medical kit manufacturers?
Would it be possible to add to an existing charity, perhaps by modifying the fit so that some extra equipement can be slotted in as needed, and some extra staff are added to the books be a better option? That way, you get the capability for when it's needed, presumably at a fraction of the cost, and you don't dilute the fundraising. I don't know enough about the equipment required for NETS vs. HEMS to know whether this is even possible, but it seems like it's at least worth investigating. Perhaps an opportunity for some tie-in with the medical kit manufacturers?