Any pilots left who *enjoy* this profession?
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Any pilots left who *enjoy* this profession?
I'm 24 years old, just graduated college with a Lib Arts degree, and have always wanted to become an airline pilot. But a few weeks ago, I was bit with the helo bug and decided to take an introductory flight...now I'm hooked.
Just like the fixed-wing, the helo market is saturated with *good* pilots (thousands of hours) who cannot find work. I live within my means, I don't expect to make a lot of money, and I'm thinking that I'd like to become a flight instructor as a career. Is the salary of a FI feasible? I'm thinking like 20K a year....which is fine by me, I already have everything I need, I just don't want to be "one of those guys" who work next to nothing just to fly a shiny new toy...I already know what that does to the industry.
Also, what do you enjoy most about the profession? For me, the appeal is the stick and "rudder" skills required to fly a helicopter, and that seat of the pants feeling. It's a challenge! Sure busting my ass to work for an airline would pay more, but my idea of fun is not showing up to an airport, plugging in some numbers into an FMC and letting the AP fly 90% of the time...No thanks!
Just like the fixed-wing, the helo market is saturated with *good* pilots (thousands of hours) who cannot find work. I live within my means, I don't expect to make a lot of money, and I'm thinking that I'd like to become a flight instructor as a career. Is the salary of a FI feasible? I'm thinking like 20K a year....which is fine by me, I already have everything I need, I just don't want to be "one of those guys" who work next to nothing just to fly a shiny new toy...I already know what that does to the industry.
Also, what do you enjoy most about the profession? For me, the appeal is the stick and "rudder" skills required to fly a helicopter, and that seat of the pants feeling. It's a challenge! Sure busting my ass to work for an airline would pay more, but my idea of fun is not showing up to an airport, plugging in some numbers into an FMC and letting the AP fly 90% of the time...No thanks!
the seat of the pants flying is certainly still out there... i have flown military aircraft, all around the world... being a recon bird, we get to fly helicopters with no "autopilot". we wiggle the sticks to get the helicopter where we need it when we need it to be there. it is actually hard for me to fly an altitude and airspeed straight and level. that is the price i pay for flying low level 95% of the time. make sure you stay proficient in all aspects of flying, from instruments, to low level navigation, each is demanding, dont let yourself fall into the same trap i did, and be great at one and horrible at the other. i cant speak for the job market being military, but i would expect to pay your dues for a few years until you have been with a company long enough to prove your competence through example. the bug bite is quite easy to get but it is worth it, stick with it, and take every opportunity to fly new and different aircraft and jobs, continue to expand your knowledge, and dont be afraid to take the crap jobs... i have had more fun, and learned more on the flights that i didnt want to fly. finally, always stick to the basics of safety and strive to be the safest and most knowledgeable pilot on the field. a safe pilot how is always willing to get the job done will put you leaps ahead in the rotor world.
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There may be a bigger shortage of flight instructors than you realize. Experienced flight instructors can earn up to $100k if you wish to stay in that end of the business. I know of two civilian trained guys this year who had around 1500 hours, with less than 200 hours of turbine time each and started at $70k a year teaching on government contracts. It only took them around 2 years to build that time.
Chief Bottle Washer
I'm thinking that I'd like to become a flight instructor as a career. Is the salary of a FI feasible? I'm thinking like 20K a year....which is fine by me, I already have everything I need, I just don't want to be "one of those guys" who work next to nothing just to fly a shiny new toy...I already know what that does to the industry.
If you haven't done so already, you may like to try the Search function, or even the 'sticky' at the top of the page So you want to become a helicopter pilot. We have quite a few threads already on this subject, the best of which is Becoming an Instructor and related FI questions
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Still Love It, what there is of it
After 34 years, I still enjoy flying helicopters. Today the overwhelming majority of the job is not flying or related to flying. Tedious paperwork related to training and operations, and as aircraft have gotten more expensive and capable, the irony is that flying hours have gone down. Most big operators have a climate of severity toward the flying help and this does not inspire confidence or loyalty and makes the workplace unpleasant. There is no reason for it to be this way, but it seems that this is what we have now. I would take a pay cut to be able to fly more and have a pleasant workplace. Yes the flying is still as attractive as ever, but the flying environment is sadly not what it was when I began. I am sorry for the young people entering the profession who will not know the joys I experienced starting out and I don't have much hope for the future when I reflect that 30 years from now today's relatively new pilots will also be looking back on these as "the good old days."
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Hey RotorRock
Good question, level of enjoyment and pay seem to almost be two opposite lines on a graph for this job.
The happiest guys i know, the ones with the with the most interesting flying, are the VFR guys. The unhappiest are the IFR pilots, they get paid alot but in general they are touring to some dump, doing airline style flying, and are hooked into the money so hard they cant get out if they wanted to.
The irony is most of the VFR guys i know are trying to get into the IFR scene!
Good question, level of enjoyment and pay seem to almost be two opposite lines on a graph for this job.
The happiest guys i know, the ones with the with the most interesting flying, are the VFR guys. The unhappiest are the IFR pilots, they get paid alot but in general they are touring to some dump, doing airline style flying, and are hooked into the money so hard they cant get out if they wanted to.
The irony is most of the VFR guys i know are trying to get into the IFR scene!
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I fly VFR, have a challenging job, and make a good (quite good) income.
I love what I do for a living, and don't really have any desire to do anything else.
Does that make me odd? Or lucky?
Or both?
I love what I do for a living, and don't really have any desire to do anything else.
Does that make me odd? Or lucky?
Or both?
Last edited by cab driver; 5th May 2011 at 07:13. Reason: spelling
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30 years from now today's relatively new pilots will also be looking back on these as "the good old days."
I still enjoy the flying after almost 35 years of it. Albeit doing relatively routine stuff these days I still usually experience something new and learn from it. However, the life style that goes with it is often disappointing. Helicopter pilots are traditionally underpaid in comparison with those flying fixed wing. If I'd taken my earlier option to fly multi-engined fixed wing I'd be financially better off and possibly in a position to retire quite a few years earlier than I will now be.
But I'm not unhappy about it.
To be honest, I can't imagine anyone being happy to make a full career out of rotary flying instruction in isolation.
Over 25 years in the industry and living every minute of it!
Did the bush thing, all on your own, slinging drills and bucketing on fires, living in tents, absolutely loved every minute of it.
Did the EMS thing, flying IFR twins but keeping one wheel of a S76 on a floating dock while a couple of medics load/unload a stretcher, at least once a month, kept things very challenging indeed. Home most everynight and never knew where you were going when the phone rang, rerouting IFR for higher priority calls, lots of comradery with fellow crewmen..different than the bush flying but loved every minute of it!
Doing the offshore thing, lots of solid mins IFR, challenging weather, demanding customer, tricky flight planning, keeping up to date on ever-changing SOPs, flying with other experienced guys and never stop learning, running the sim/training, loving every minute of it.
Touring, well, I've only filled in abit on some international gigs but now I''m commited to it, excited to see and work with new cultures, the scenary, foods....I'm quite sure to love every minute of it.
Whenever it gets you down, just take a look out your cockpit window, think about the challenges you face daily, and consider a 9 to 5 in a cubicle in comparison......
Did the bush thing, all on your own, slinging drills and bucketing on fires, living in tents, absolutely loved every minute of it.
Did the EMS thing, flying IFR twins but keeping one wheel of a S76 on a floating dock while a couple of medics load/unload a stretcher, at least once a month, kept things very challenging indeed. Home most everynight and never knew where you were going when the phone rang, rerouting IFR for higher priority calls, lots of comradery with fellow crewmen..different than the bush flying but loved every minute of it!
Doing the offshore thing, lots of solid mins IFR, challenging weather, demanding customer, tricky flight planning, keeping up to date on ever-changing SOPs, flying with other experienced guys and never stop learning, running the sim/training, loving every minute of it.
Touring, well, I've only filled in abit on some international gigs but now I''m commited to it, excited to see and work with new cultures, the scenary, foods....I'm quite sure to love every minute of it.
Whenever it gets you down, just take a look out your cockpit window, think about the challenges you face daily, and consider a 9 to 5 in a cubicle in comparison......
Rotorock:
A more realistic approach to rotary aviation methinks, than the average joe who wants this and that for next to nothing.
I'm ex mil, ex police/hems, now management.
If you were my son doing this (and I have one your age) and he was adamant that he wanted to fly....then hand on heart, I'd tell him to go fly airlines first. This would set him up for relative financial security for his future family. He would also be in a position to learn to fly helos then, on the side. If at this stage he felt that rotary was the future, he could jettison the commercial airline route and concentrate on flying real aircraft
DON'T get stuck in permanent flying instructional jobs, corporate jobs or offshore either. They will bore you to death.
Fly for FUN....................................................good luck and keep the ball in the middle
A more realistic approach to rotary aviation methinks, than the average joe who wants this and that for next to nothing.
I'm ex mil, ex police/hems, now management.
If you were my son doing this (and I have one your age) and he was adamant that he wanted to fly....then hand on heart, I'd tell him to go fly airlines first. This would set him up for relative financial security for his future family. He would also be in a position to learn to fly helos then, on the side. If at this stage he felt that rotary was the future, he could jettison the commercial airline route and concentrate on flying real aircraft
DON'T get stuck in permanent flying instructional jobs, corporate jobs or offshore either. They will bore you to death.
Fly for FUN....................................................good luck and keep the ball in the middle
"Just a pilot"
Flying for 42 years and still enjoy it- mostly
Yes, there are flights when I regret showing up for work that day, but I generally still enjoy flying. There are even whole days I feel that way.
But- after the flights I hate and wish I hadn't started, I critique for future application. There's satisfaction, and sometimes relief, in getting those done.
As Shytorque said, I can't imagine a career limited to instructing. Compensation (in the US) for CFIs was a factor in my leaving that phase of the industry. Teaching ab initio through commercial became tedious as well.
But- after the flights I hate and wish I hadn't started, I critique for future application. There's satisfaction, and sometimes relief, in getting those done.
As Shytorque said, I can't imagine a career limited to instructing. Compensation (in the US) for CFIs was a factor in my leaving that phase of the industry. Teaching ab initio through commercial became tedious as well.
Last edited by Devil 49; 5th May 2011 at 17:02.
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23 year long fishing and camping trip
Hi Rotorhead. I just joined the forum and your post caught my attention. In Canada heli flying is mostly in the bush and thats all I've done including the float plane work before that. For the most part I love it. The times I've thought to myself "I can't believe they're paying me to do this -and how much" far outweigh the crap moments. So, if you like to fish, vast expanses of tundra, wildlife, gorgeous mountain settings and I shouldn't leave out the swamps
like the drill camp I'm in now, Canada is a great place to fly. I've only done summer contracts for quite a long time now and easily make enough to see me through the winter while travelling somewhere warm and interesting (plus salting away for future). I highly recommend it to anyone if thats their thing. You mentioned instructing - I couldn't imagine anything more boring to do with a helicopter other than offshore IFR or pipeline patrol - but thats just me. There's a whole world of specialty heli work thats a lot of fun and rewarding such as fire fighting, longlining, game management,..... and its all high skill "stick and rudder" real flying just like grandad did (but he didn't have wifi in camp or gps). Canada gets quite a few people from abroad in its flying schools and many get jobs here too. I hope that was some help albeit only one perspective - and stay away from airports if you want to see the cool stuff .
like the drill camp I'm in now, Canada is a great place to fly. I've only done summer contracts for quite a long time now and easily make enough to see me through the winter while travelling somewhere warm and interesting (plus salting away for future). I highly recommend it to anyone if thats their thing. You mentioned instructing - I couldn't imagine anything more boring to do with a helicopter other than offshore IFR or pipeline patrol - but thats just me. There's a whole world of specialty heli work thats a lot of fun and rewarding such as fire fighting, longlining, game management,..... and its all high skill "stick and rudder" real flying just like grandad did (but he didn't have wifi in camp or gps). Canada gets quite a few people from abroad in its flying schools and many get jobs here too. I hope that was some help albeit only one perspective - and stay away from airports if you want to see the cool stuff .
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still happy in the seat
Just over 21 years with a licence and still enjoy the job. I have been lucky in the things I've done and the people I've met.
I have managed to try most things that can be done with a helicopter, from basic charter through to multi engine corporate. I've enjoyed doing stuff like frost prevention, media, fire work, EMS, instructing, joy flights, photography, GPS survey, lifting, power lines and other things that don't spring to mind. I've never done that much that I could call myself an expert, but enough to say I can do a reasonable job of it.
The work itself has all been satisfying from seeing someone solo for the first time (always a relief to me that they didn't just flip the aircraft arse over head on the first solo take off), to actually being involved in saving someones life. 98% of the people I've worked with are good fun and professional. They know when to work hard and when to have a beer and relax.
I've seen the industry change from the days when doing your Senior Commercial Licence (pre ATPLH) and having an instrument rating were a waste of time and money to now where if you don't have ATPLH and an instrument rating you won't get far. I've seen a sharp increase in corporate/private twins coming into the country, more and more new turbine helicopters, modern upto date aircraft being put on line with private owners. All good for pilots, and it will continue to grow and improve, also good for us.
The only down side of the jobs is the friends you loose. Unquestionably the worst part of the job. And it happens all too often.
Having said that, safety is improving swifty, not about time.
I have managed to try most things that can be done with a helicopter, from basic charter through to multi engine corporate. I've enjoyed doing stuff like frost prevention, media, fire work, EMS, instructing, joy flights, photography, GPS survey, lifting, power lines and other things that don't spring to mind. I've never done that much that I could call myself an expert, but enough to say I can do a reasonable job of it.
The work itself has all been satisfying from seeing someone solo for the first time (always a relief to me that they didn't just flip the aircraft arse over head on the first solo take off), to actually being involved in saving someones life. 98% of the people I've worked with are good fun and professional. They know when to work hard and when to have a beer and relax.
I've seen the industry change from the days when doing your Senior Commercial Licence (pre ATPLH) and having an instrument rating were a waste of time and money to now where if you don't have ATPLH and an instrument rating you won't get far. I've seen a sharp increase in corporate/private twins coming into the country, more and more new turbine helicopters, modern upto date aircraft being put on line with private owners. All good for pilots, and it will continue to grow and improve, also good for us.
The only down side of the jobs is the friends you loose. Unquestionably the worst part of the job. And it happens all too often.
Having said that, safety is improving swifty, not about time.
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If we all didn't love our jobs to one degree or another, we probably wouldn't be posting on this website...
There are always good times and bad but, it beats a 9-5 hands-down... Still love it after 24 years and still look forward to getting up and going to work... How many professions can you say that about ??
There are always good times and bad but, it beats a 9-5 hands-down... Still love it after 24 years and still look forward to getting up and going to work... How many professions can you say that about ??
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Wow! There is a wealth of information in this thread. Thank you ALL for the encouraging words of wisdom, advice and input. I was torn between taking the fixed-wing route or just diving head-first into rotors, but the appeal of helicopter flying in general, and the diverse job applications you can do with them, have convinced me. I've read and re-read your messages and, after a very difficult decision, have decided to start saving for my helicopter private license...hopefully I can start this summer just in time for the beautiful weather here in the Pacific Northwest. Can't wait to join the rotor fraternity
Thank you again,
RotorRock
Thank you again,
RotorRock
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I believe there to be a spectrum of activity. I was fortunate to fly, in the same company, IFR overland and underslung load lifting. It was perhaps the most satisfying period of my career.
Both are at extreme ends of the spectrum and worlds apart. Nevertheless, each requires a level of tactile and demanding skill which needs to be honed. In between we find instructing which is a commendable activity with many demands. Charter flying in the vagaries of British weather with a VFR machine can be stress indeed, but unmatched for pleasure on a fine day.
Variety is definitely the key and if you can find that in the same company you hit utopia - or something approximating it. (give PDG in Inverness serious consideration)
I now fly a desk at MAUW, most of the time, but still walk out to a waiting S76 with a sense of excited anticipation. I fooled my AME again the other day and celebrated with a Big Mac with large Fries in my normal fashion.
Flying ? - a clean shirt and a new set of TAF's and you start your day with little baggage from the previous day. Enjoy! UG
Both are at extreme ends of the spectrum and worlds apart. Nevertheless, each requires a level of tactile and demanding skill which needs to be honed. In between we find instructing which is a commendable activity with many demands. Charter flying in the vagaries of British weather with a VFR machine can be stress indeed, but unmatched for pleasure on a fine day.
Variety is definitely the key and if you can find that in the same company you hit utopia - or something approximating it. (give PDG in Inverness serious consideration)
I now fly a desk at MAUW, most of the time, but still walk out to a waiting S76 with a sense of excited anticipation. I fooled my AME again the other day and celebrated with a Big Mac with large Fries in my normal fashion.
Flying ? - a clean shirt and a new set of TAF's and you start your day with little baggage from the previous day. Enjoy! UG
