Industrial Action in Australia.
Heliduck, you have a point, but if we were paid on responsibility, engineers would be paid the most, as they have the lives of the passengers AND the pilots in their dirty little underpaid and underappreciated hands (and they spend years longer training than the two guys up front), yet they don't even figure in anyones calculations as they are considered a cost that a company must bear.
If I wanted lots of money, I'd work in the dirt and mud as a drill hand on a rig. If I wanted to do the job I wanted and earn an Ok wage, I'd stick with the job I have.
Manual labour jobs historically are paid more than a lot of other jobs (road working crews for instance). If you want the money, I'm sure there are road working crews, or oil rig cleaningmaintenance companies looking for employees. Long term the prospects probably aren't that great, as opposed to our industry where the long term prospects are probably better.
If I wanted lots of money, I'd work in the dirt and mud as a drill hand on a rig. If I wanted to do the job I wanted and earn an Ok wage, I'd stick with the job I have.
Manual labour jobs historically are paid more than a lot of other jobs (road working crews for instance). If you want the money, I'm sure there are road working crews, or oil rig cleaningmaintenance companies looking for employees. Long term the prospects probably aren't that great, as opposed to our industry where the long term prospects are probably better.
Nooby, you are correct again - engineers should be paid more than the bonehead sitting in the cockpit!
Another example to highlight my agreement with your reasoning - years ago a plumber visited my friends place & charged him $80/hr to get in & clean his septic tank. An exhorbitant rate at that time, but I didn't begrudge him a cent as I figured he was earning every bit of it. I certainly wouldn't have done the job for twice that rate!
The resource sector pay low skilled workers so well because if they don't they won't get the workers, not many people really want to live on a rig & do that **** but the money attracts them. It's an unfortunate fact of life that this is not the case for most pilots, we do it because we want to & therefore companies don't have to pay disproportionate salaries to attract workers.
Therein lies the basis of this discussion - I understand why we are paid less, I just don't think it is fair.
Another example to highlight my agreement with your reasoning - years ago a plumber visited my friends place & charged him $80/hr to get in & clean his septic tank. An exhorbitant rate at that time, but I didn't begrudge him a cent as I figured he was earning every bit of it. I certainly wouldn't have done the job for twice that rate!
The resource sector pay low skilled workers so well because if they don't they won't get the workers, not many people really want to live on a rig & do that **** but the money attracts them. It's an unfortunate fact of life that this is not the case for most pilots, we do it because we want to & therefore companies don't have to pay disproportionate salaries to attract workers.
Therein lies the basis of this discussion - I understand why we are paid less, I just don't think it is fair.
Commodity Prices
When the oil companies want a helicopter what do they do ? They seek the best value ($/safety/efficiency combination) that they can find. Helicopter transport is just one more component OR commodity they require to get that oil and gas up and out. When a helicopter company is selected to provide that service , they too must get the best value for the various commodities they must put in that helicopter to get it up and away. Fuel , parts…..and pilots. Yes , we are just one more commodity in the big equation.
As a long time Canuck flyer (I am actually an Aussie but been Canadianized over the last 30 years) I had always felt that I belonged to a big happy family and effectively sold myself accordingly. Times have now changed. When I came in to the offshore industry I was paid the equivalent of an F27 captain. Now I would be lucky to draw the equivalent of a Dash 8 copilot. Salary and conditions have undergone a long slow erosion process.
I now belong to a mammoth sized(now , unfortunately , impersonal) organization. The commodity (me) is now being sold by the GHPA (my union). They are currently doing this by way of negotiating the best price they can as part of a collective bargaining agreement with the company I work for.
Commodity prices are based on supply and demand AND the negotiating skills of the seller.
If we do not get top dollar now…….then we never will….and this from a man who , until he started to seriously look at his retirement nest egg , was happy to go with the flow and flew almost solely for the fun and grand adventure it has always been.
So , to my Australian colleagues....go for it
When the oil companies want a helicopter what do they do ? They seek the best value ($/safety/efficiency combination) that they can find. Helicopter transport is just one more component OR commodity they require to get that oil and gas up and out. When a helicopter company is selected to provide that service , they too must get the best value for the various commodities they must put in that helicopter to get it up and away. Fuel , parts…..and pilots. Yes , we are just one more commodity in the big equation.
As a long time Canuck flyer (I am actually an Aussie but been Canadianized over the last 30 years) I had always felt that I belonged to a big happy family and effectively sold myself accordingly. Times have now changed. When I came in to the offshore industry I was paid the equivalent of an F27 captain. Now I would be lucky to draw the equivalent of a Dash 8 copilot. Salary and conditions have undergone a long slow erosion process.
I now belong to a mammoth sized(now , unfortunately , impersonal) organization. The commodity (me) is now being sold by the GHPA (my union). They are currently doing this by way of negotiating the best price they can as part of a collective bargaining agreement with the company I work for.
Commodity prices are based on supply and demand AND the negotiating skills of the seller.
If we do not get top dollar now…….then we never will….and this from a man who , until he started to seriously look at his retirement nest egg , was happy to go with the flow and flew almost solely for the fun and grand adventure it has always been.
So , to my Australian colleagues....go for it
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Sounds like I overpaid you!!
In the mid 60s, as a bush pilot flying a Bell 47 with all the various allowances & bonuses, a DC9 pilot told me I got more than him! Haven't times changed!
In the mid 60s, as a bush pilot flying a Bell 47 with all the various allowances & bonuses, a DC9 pilot told me I got more than him! Haven't times changed!
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"The times....they are a changing"
Oh yes, times have changed a bit since the mid 60's?
Flying modern multi engined systems aircraft offshore IFR is a world away from bush work 40 years ago in a 47 and people need to be paid accordingly.
Now before the usual ranting starts I'm not having a crack at bush drivers here.
One of the problems of the industry is that some guys never actually make the change in their own minds as to the fact that they are now doing a much more complicated job which requires all the skills of a bush driver and more besides. Thankfully these guys are now all seeing the light and are sticking together to get a better deal and a bigger slice of the pie.
In the modern offshore enviroment and IFR/EMS work you need to be paid accordingly and bush wages just don't cut it anymore. Some good advances in conditions have been made over the last few years but the sooner management realise that the base price for an experienced multiengined IFR offshore pilot has gone up the better.
It is a basic supply and demand problem....the company need their Pilots to be highly qualified, safe and very experienced because that is after all part of the overall product that they sell to the client. This level of qualification and experience takes a long time to aquire and the idea of 'shaking the pilot tree and seeing what falls out' went out with the ark.
Apparently we now need to be "moving forward".
Flying modern multi engined systems aircraft offshore IFR is a world away from bush work 40 years ago in a 47 and people need to be paid accordingly.
Now before the usual ranting starts I'm not having a crack at bush drivers here.
One of the problems of the industry is that some guys never actually make the change in their own minds as to the fact that they are now doing a much more complicated job which requires all the skills of a bush driver and more besides. Thankfully these guys are now all seeing the light and are sticking together to get a better deal and a bigger slice of the pie.
In the modern offshore enviroment and IFR/EMS work you need to be paid accordingly and bush wages just don't cut it anymore. Some good advances in conditions have been made over the last few years but the sooner management realise that the base price for an experienced multiengined IFR offshore pilot has gone up the better.
It is a basic supply and demand problem....the company need their Pilots to be highly qualified, safe and very experienced because that is after all part of the overall product that they sell to the client. This level of qualification and experience takes a long time to aquire and the idea of 'shaking the pilot tree and seeing what falls out' went out with the ark.
Apparently we now need to be "moving forward".
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thought......
In a large offshore Company, if the head office staff all decide to take the day off at once, the Company continues to make money. If the pilots all decide to take the off at once.....well, the Company probably wouldn't make much money that day! In fact, they would probably be paying their clients penalties.
As a pilot, what are you worth to your Company?
In a large offshore Company, if the head office staff all decide to take the day off at once, the Company continues to make money. If the pilots all decide to take the off at once.....well, the Company probably wouldn't make much money that day! In fact, they would probably be paying their clients penalties.
As a pilot, what are you worth to your Company?
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Flipcelia....you have it right....we may not get our hands "dirty" like the manual workers people here are saying that get paid well...but we do the " manual work" in terms of our profession 
We "earn the money" for the company's by flying to the rigs.....Just because we stay clean doesn't mean we should be paid less...Without us, or the engineers, the other "manual workers" (with dirty hands) the companies earn nothing....
Stick together lads, don't believe the lies management tell you about tough economic times, the company just does not have the money crap etc.... CHC UK used this last year trying to take advantage of the recession and have just made 250 million in profits (up from 170 million last year)
Not bad huh during " tough times"....and they tell the pilots they need to work more days to "help the company out"
I wish you all the best.....
P.H.
We "earn the money" for the company's by flying to the rigs.....Just because we stay clean doesn't mean we should be paid less...Without us, or the engineers, the other "manual workers" (with dirty hands) the companies earn nothing.... Stick together lads, don't believe the lies management tell you about tough economic times, the company just does not have the money crap etc.... CHC UK used this last year trying to take advantage of the recession and have just made 250 million in profits (up from 170 million last year)
Not bad huh during " tough times"....and they tell the pilots they need to work more days to "help the company out"I wish you all the best.....
P.H.
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The financial reports of companies like CHC/BHA are in the public domain so anyone can see how they are performing. Even a cursory glance indicates that the industry is once again booming with more to come. If CHC are crying poor then they must think very little of the people who are actually at the very pointy end of making a handsome profit.
If all this turns into IA then, as has been said, they won't be making any money if people choose to take a stand and finally get salaries onto a professional level.
If all this turns into IA then, as has been said, they won't be making any money if people choose to take a stand and finally get salaries onto a professional level.
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Well, jungle drums are beating to the sound of industrial action!
Wonder how Woodside will be viewing Allan Blake's failure to sort out the pay deal for the Bristow Pilots without them striking?
Wonder how Woodside will be viewing Allan Blake's failure to sort out the pay deal for the Bristow Pilots without them striking?
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Mr. Blake's hands are probably tied by Houston and Redhill, BHA has operated this way for years, most GMs in Australia have little autonomy to get things done.
In the old days, Redhill always promoted an adversarial relationship with the Pilot's Union and the pilots. They thought that they could do in Australia what they did on the North Sea in 1977 but its never worked.
In the old days, Redhill always promoted an adversarial relationship with the Pilot's Union and the pilots. They thought that they could do in Australia what they did on the North Sea in 1977 but its never worked.
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Noting all the comments about pilots being commodities (mostly all true), the fact is now the pilots are highly trained (ATPLs multi IFR etc) operators that don't grow on trees. They are not easily replaced in the short term. If the pilots don't stick together now and get the best for themselves (and that will flow on to the rest of the industry), they never will.
Go for it boys and I wish you the best of luck
Go for it boys and I wish you the best of luck
