Industrial Action in Australia.
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Industrial Action in Australia.
Seems that industrial action in support of various stalled EBA's is set to put the cat amongst the pigeons in Australia.
Both CHC and HNZ /Cougar pilots have apparently already applied to take industrial action with the Bristow guys considering it soon.
With all three 'major' offshore operators possibly taking industrial action over the next few months it could really have an effect upon offshore gas/oil?
I expect the oil companies would be getting a bit 'twitchy' with the possibility of everyone taking IA at the same time?
Both CHC and HNZ /Cougar pilots have apparently already applied to take industrial action with the Bristow guys considering it soon.
With all three 'major' offshore operators possibly taking industrial action over the next few months it could really have an effect upon offshore gas/oil?
I expect the oil companies would be getting a bit 'twitchy' with the possibility of everyone taking IA at the same time?
The post is a bit confusing. Are the Operators taking Industrial action against the pilots, or are the pilots taking Industrial action against the Operators?
For the good sake of all of them I hope it doesn't boil down to Industrial action. History shows that, whatever the merits of the case, all of the participants will get their names recorded on the "never to be employed again" list in the employer secret little black book.
For the good sake of all of them I hope it doesn't boil down to Industrial action. History shows that, whatever the merits of the case, all of the participants will get their names recorded on the "never to be employed again" list in the employer secret little black book.
We have a mindset in this industry that pilots can be replaced at anytime and that gives management the upperhand in any negotiations.
So services will not be affected.
So services will not be affected.
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All,
enough is enough in our Offshore industry...YES, CHC HNZ/Cougar and Bristow are part of this industry Offshore/oil/gas) and should be compensated in line with the industry that we are part of!
I am tired of being under paid and walked all over. IA has been approved for two of the three operators and if the first thread is to be believed the third operator will be following suit soon. If this is what it takes to be paid on a level playing field, then so be it.
We are at the bottom of the pile because we are generally a spineless lot who will look after themselves when push comes to shove (don't take personal offense). I am tired of peers whining about conditions and pay, but when given the opportunity they seem to lose their voice - Gents, we have a second opportunity (we made some gain last boom) to advance our conditions and climb from the bottom of the pile if we all stick together! It is possible and we all seem to be singing from the same sheet of music at the moment - Lets keep it going
Who's on board?
enough is enough in our Offshore industry...YES, CHC HNZ/Cougar and Bristow are part of this industry Offshore/oil/gas) and should be compensated in line with the industry that we are part of!
I am tired of being under paid and walked all over. IA has been approved for two of the three operators and if the first thread is to be believed the third operator will be following suit soon. If this is what it takes to be paid on a level playing field, then so be it.
We are at the bottom of the pile because we are generally a spineless lot who will look after themselves when push comes to shove (don't take personal offense). I am tired of peers whining about conditions and pay, but when given the opportunity they seem to lose their voice - Gents, we have a second opportunity (we made some gain last boom) to advance our conditions and climb from the bottom of the pile if we all stick together! It is possible and we all seem to be singing from the same sheet of music at the moment - Lets keep it going
Who's on board?
Nigel,
They didn't wimp out last time. They had voted yes for PIA and were all set to go. The company then won an appeal in the IRC that if they did strike lives would be in danger because EMS services would be interrupted.
Heliringer,
I'll think you'll find that these days the guys realise they have expensive skills and endorsements(139/225/AS332/76C++) that aren't replaced cheaply. So management doesn't have the upper hand. Management also know that the oil/gas companies are watching them closely and the last thing they want is a disruption to their service.
Why should the lowest paid people on a flight to an oil/gas rig be the two guys up the front?
They didn't wimp out last time. They had voted yes for PIA and were all set to go. The company then won an appeal in the IRC that if they did strike lives would be in danger because EMS services would be interrupted.
Heliringer,
I'll think you'll find that these days the guys realise they have expensive skills and endorsements(139/225/AS332/76C++) that aren't replaced cheaply. So management doesn't have the upper hand. Management also know that the oil/gas companies are watching them closely and the last thing they want is a disruption to their service.
Why should the lowest paid people on a flight to an oil/gas rig be the two guys up the front?
Hey GG
In answer to your question 'why should we be the lowest paid on the aircraft?'
I think it's obvious......
We are just not as good looking as the riggies!
I am sure it gives them a comfortably smug feeling as well.
They are sensitive creatures, more so than pilots, now that's sensitive!
Yes Yes, I know?! I have just made another completely pointless post.
Be kind
In answer to your question 'why should we be the lowest paid on the aircraft?'
I think it's obvious......
We are just not as good looking as the riggies!
I am sure it gives them a comfortably smug feeling as well.
They are sensitive creatures, more so than pilots, now that's sensitive!
Yes Yes, I know?! I have just made another completely pointless post.
Be kind
According to the latest AFAP newsletter: CHC Australia pilots “...have overwhelmingly voted to support protected industrial action after their negotiations effectively stopped...”
Why should the lowest paid people on a flight to an oil/gas rig be the two guys up the front?
It's an "old line" because no one has done anything about trying to change it until recently. The last couple of years has seen positive change in offshore T&C's and the next few weeks will see yet more. Motivated pilot bodies are realising their worth!
Watch this space....
P1
Watch this space....
P1
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Jesus - not that old line again!
So yes, that old line again, and again, and again, until we are at least on parity with the guys in the back.
TalkSpike.
So does that mean that corporate pilots earn the same as the corporate passengers they carry in the back??
Comparing pilot pay between different companies/locations/skill requirements is relevant, but comparing your pay to the pay of people in the back who are not in a related work speciality? That just doesn't make sense.
I must pass your idea on to a 747 buddy of mine and see if he can get his pay changed to match the highest earning passenger on the aircraft. You can bet he'd be a very happy man!!
Oh, and if you're and expat working for at least one of the companies in Nigeria, you'll find that you earn about half of what the local pilots earn, not double. But then Nigeria is a force unto its own
212man
Comparing pilot pay between different companies/locations/skill requirements is relevant, but comparing your pay to the pay of people in the back who are not in a related work speciality? That just doesn't make sense.
I must pass your idea on to a 747 buddy of mine and see if he can get his pay changed to match the highest earning passenger on the aircraft. You can bet he'd be a very happy man!!
Oh, and if you're and expat working for at least one of the companies in Nigeria, you'll find that you earn about half of what the local pilots earn, not double. But then Nigeria is a force unto its own
212man
Good point nooby. When scouting pipelines with a highly paid consultant I thought I should have been on more money, but when tree planting I was paid more than all of my passengers combined! By the way, not once did I argue that I should be paid the same as a tree-planter!!
Different occupations aside, I think the point people are trying to make is that although they are pilots, they are still working within the oil & gas industry & would like to be paid comparitively with others of their skill/responsibility level in the industry. The problem is, although we work in the oil & gas we come under the sub-umbrella of aviation. I think if pilots were employed directly by the oil & gas companies things would be a little different?
Different occupations aside, I think the point people are trying to make is that although they are pilots, they are still working within the oil & gas industry & would like to be paid comparitively with others of their skill/responsibility level in the industry. The problem is, although we work in the oil & gas we come under the sub-umbrella of aviation. I think if pilots were employed directly by the oil & gas companies things would be a little different?
Chief Bottle Washer
nooby,
Having been in the front seat of too many offshore flights, I believe that GreenerGrass has a point. He says, quite pertinently, that the front seats are the lowest paid people on the flight, not that they should be getting the same as the highest paid passenger (attractive as that may be!). Among the pax are the cooks, the stewards, the first time roustabouts: they're all getting better money than the drivers who have invested money, time and then years of experience to get where they are.
The forces of supply and demand dictate to a large degree what a profession gets paid. Our profession has beggared itself for years, with the appeal of being a helicopter pilot outweighing the ability to earn a good living from the profession.
Good luck to the Australian pilots in their negotiations
Having been in the front seat of too many offshore flights, I believe that GreenerGrass has a point. He says, quite pertinently, that the front seats are the lowest paid people on the flight, not that they should be getting the same as the highest paid passenger (attractive as that may be!). Among the pax are the cooks, the stewards, the first time roustabouts: they're all getting better money than the drivers who have invested money, time and then years of experience to get where they are.
The forces of supply and demand dictate to a large degree what a profession gets paid. Our profession has beggared itself for years, with the appeal of being a helicopter pilot outweighing the ability to earn a good living from the profession.
Good luck to the Australian pilots in their negotiations
Among the pax are the cooks, the stewards, the first time roustabouts: they're all getting better money than the drivers who have invested money, time and then years of experience to get where they are.
I work for an oil company at the same salary grade as an OIM, so I have some idea of what the figures are. My (UK based) base salary is somewhere at the bottom of the current UK North Sea Captains' scales (like year 2-3.) It's true that there would be additional allowances on top of that for an offshore employee, as there are for offshore based helicopter pilots.
I'm not aiming to start a bun fight about global salaries - far from it - I'm just trying to point out that to perpetuate the myth that everyone on a helicopter earns more than the pilots does nobody any favours. If used in the negotiating argument it may even be counterproductive as it will be shown to be just that - a myth!
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Noooby,
If you haven't worked it out by now you are in an offshore thread, no one is suggesting that Rupert Murdoch's pilot should be paid the same as the boss.
212man,
I was on my way to work here in Aus sitting down the back of a 737 next to a guy who cleaned LNG tankers when they are in port (cabins, kitchens etc), he earned twice what I did!
I'm sure we are not the lowest paid workers offshore but on the average I think O & G companies can afford a little more for the services we provide. BP managed to anti up US$20B weeks after the SHTF in the Gulf of Mexico, I'm sure they can afford it. (well maybe not BP anymore ).
TalkSpike.
If you haven't worked it out by now you are in an offshore thread, no one is suggesting that Rupert Murdoch's pilot should be paid the same as the boss.
212man,
I was on my way to work here in Aus sitting down the back of a 737 next to a guy who cleaned LNG tankers when they are in port (cabins, kitchens etc), he earned twice what I did!
I'm sure we are not the lowest paid workers offshore but on the average I think O & G companies can afford a little more for the services we provide. BP managed to anti up US$20B weeks after the SHTF in the Gulf of Mexico, I'm sure they can afford it. (well maybe not BP anymore ).
TalkSpike.
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212 Man
By your own admission, you are basing your comments on a North Sea scenario.
Here's a few facts about Australia which is what this thread is about afterall:
-BALPA rates for pilots show 10-15% better salaries for North Sea offshore pilots versus Aussy equivalent despite a higher cost of living in Australia
-Kitchen hands earns roughly the same as a year 5 Captain even before allowances!
-20 year old unskilled ramp attendants get paid about the same as a First Officer
It may well be fair to say that the pilots don't earn less than everyone on the machine... but the fact is in Australia, they certainly earn less than most of them!
It should be remembered that the North Sea guys got a big head start on pay and conditions relative to the rest of the world.
Pilots are professionals who spend many years and often many thousands of dollars mastering their art. They conduct daily what is considered one of the riskiest tasks in the oil and gas enterprise. Paying them the same as a kitchen hand or a cleaner is !
Its time that changed!
By your own admission, you are basing your comments on a North Sea scenario.
Here's a few facts about Australia which is what this thread is about afterall:
-BALPA rates for pilots show 10-15% better salaries for North Sea offshore pilots versus Aussy equivalent despite a higher cost of living in Australia
-Kitchen hands earns roughly the same as a year 5 Captain even before allowances!
-20 year old unskilled ramp attendants get paid about the same as a First Officer
It may well be fair to say that the pilots don't earn less than everyone on the machine... but the fact is in Australia, they certainly earn less than most of them!
It should be remembered that the North Sea guys got a big head start on pay and conditions relative to the rest of the world.
Pilots are professionals who spend many years and often many thousands of dollars mastering their art. They conduct daily what is considered one of the riskiest tasks in the oil and gas enterprise. Paying them the same as a kitchen hand or a cleaner is !
Its time that changed!